@TheMiddleWay Because this would be considered discrimination based on race, and it's illegal.

@TheMiddleWay Why should the white person be penalized for something that didn't happen to the black person in the past, and wasn't done by the white person?

@TheMiddleWay In my many years of interviewing people, I've never met any two candidates that were exactly alike. However, under such a theoretical scenario, I would argue that giving preferential treatment to blacks over whites (all things being 'equal' does indeed violate the law. I'm not sure about your quote above (no reference to follow-up on ‍).

Be that as it may, I also don't recall any business owner that took a racist position when it came to hiring. We all knew that not hiring a qualified candidate because of race was a sure fire way to lose business to your competition when that candidate was ultimately hired there.

@ktpinto I agree --- you shouldn't be penalized for something you didn't do. But if the law were targeted correctly, it would only "penalize" large corporations that publicly decry systemic racism, and not the common person. Systemic racism may very well exist, but the owners of the system are the owners of Google, Apple, Facebook, and similar monopolistic or quasi-monopolistic behemoths. So any giant corporation, say with a capitalization over $20 billion, should be required to hire the correct percentage of minorities (including undocumented aliens in sanctuary states) as engineers, lawyers, and top-level executives. If the new hires need training, then they can provide it, selling assets, if needed, to finance this program.

Seems like a win-win proposition to me.

@TheMiddleWay Thanks for the source. The link, however, leads to a wall of text that I'm not about to read. Instead, let's just assume your statement is true. The latter half strikes me as irrelevant, since no one files a federal lawsuit claiming they were "discriminated FOR" in getting the job because of their race. Rather, the race of the person who did NOT get the job would be highlighted, and they could file the discrimination claim.

@TheMiddleWay And there's the problem: our pasts aren't collective. My family only came here 100 years ago from an empire that doesn't exist anymore, and they were poor and they worked their butts off to get to the point we're at. They had nothing to do with slaves or slavery. Why should their descendants be penalized for something that isn't a part of their past at all? Also, not every black person in this country is descendant from US slave families. You want collectives pasts? Go find descendants of slave owners and let them not be hired, and then hire a proven descendant of US slaves.
This is why your idea is flawed.

@dan6 "If the law were targeted correctly". Aaaaaand, how often has that been known to happen? Mega-million dollar corporations have loopholes for everything, why would this be any different?
And again, why should a white person be penalized because a company needs the "correct percentage" of minorities? And what exactly is the "correct percentage"? You're basically asking for legal racism against whites. Why can't a company hire a person for having the skills needed? Instead of said law being that you have to hire x amount of blacks, how about the law be that you have to hire x engineers with whatever skill set needed, no matter what skin color (undocumented is another story that I won't go into)?
And then focus on - just like with every other "race" issue - the problems with the education system and the welfare system that cause all these other problems.

Thanks @ktpinto for your reply.

You are certainly right. Big business gets the loopholes it wants.

So the chance that my proposal is actually implemented is close to zero. I just meant it as a hypothetical.

And it would only make sense if it were not applied equally, but only to the monopolies, or companies abusing the H1B system.

Most importantly, if a company donates millions of dollars to BLM, then they are going on the record as declaring that "systemic racism" is real, when they own the system. They should have to eat their own dog food, instead of just seeing this as a PR matter.

In a multi-cultural system, nobody is going to be happy, but here we are anyway and the plutocrats should be doing their share to make things more tolerable.

@TheMiddleWay Others have already posted what I'd like to add, so I won't bother doing so here. I did, however, want to say thank you for the civil and thoughtful discourse.

@TheMiddleWay Oh, really. Fine, then I want my reparations. 40 acres and a mule, I believe. Who are you to choose what part of this country's history I get a part of?

Why some companies had reverted to a form of double-blind hiring...but it wasnt diverse enough for today’s SJWs

Some will feel insulted by the concept, and others will take full advantage of these discriminatory programs. All races have their decent folks, their scum, and everything in between.

It's a fast path to mediocrity.

Exactly. If you are for instance hiring a new employee into a group of existing employees you may have to choose between male or female. Or avoiding a personality type that may prove to be detrimental to the chemistry of your work force. There are lots of factors involved and not everyone is suited for every job and an employer should be the one to choose. Not an overeaching Government.

@TheMiddleWay still trying to make your racism palatable?

Your grade, teacher - F

@TheMiddleWay

Still racist?

sorry... this post is in progress... will go live in a week

@TheMiddleWay Yet you wrote clearly you’d hire a black person before the white based solely on the colour of their skin...

In these parts we call that trying to suck and blow at the same time.

Dance on, teacher.

@TheMiddleWay You restating a racist comment doesn’t make it any less racist.

Try again.

@TheMiddleWay An honest question? No it isn’t. That’s is among the most racist comments in this topic. What “catching up” needs to be done?

@TheMiddleWay the more astute would recognize our Canadian prime minister...

@TheMiddleWay It’s your statement. You figure it out. I said it’s racist - prove me wrong

@TheMiddleWay No reason? Your question presumes blacks are incapable of competing equally and need some help overcoming white “advantage”....evidence?

@TheMiddleWay You have yet to address the long standing practise of scoring blacks and whites differently...as an educator I hope you can appreciate that’s in the real world that creates its own problem...but as part of the problem my guess is that’s beyond you.

@TheMiddleWay Google, little man.

@TheMiddleWay Your statement is clear - you’re a racist. I have no need to prove anything.

@TheMiddleWay Still hoping nobody will notice your racist comment?

Pretty sad, teacher.

@TheMiddleWay You must be from Hawaii with all the spam you produce.

Equality is subjective it does not exsist in nature how do you expect humans to be objective?

@TheMiddleWay I don't think we have to reach the question of whether it is racist or not. But i do think that the floor should be much higher, perhaps $20 billion in capitalization. Thus Apple, Facebook, and Google should certainly be required to comply, and the hires should be in engineering, legal, and executive positions, and not in some token HR positions. The idea would be that these organizations give to BLM and claim that there is systemic racism. But they own the system. So they should fix it, spending as much as is necessary to train their new engineers, lawyers, and executives.

Aren't you guys forgetting affirmative action. How'd that experiment work, huh? It didn't. It still doesn't.

To say blacks or other minorities are under such repression as to not have the fortitude to persevere is no different than an oppressive husband taking "care" of his wife because she isn't "well".

If you tell someone they aren't good enough, they will begin to believe it.

Affirmative action affirmed (in the psyche of the individual within the minority group) that the actions of those minorities were ineffective because they had to be "cared for" by the oppressors.

Drop the bs. Let them be autonomous, self striving, individuals. Let them prove to themselves and those trying to save them that they don't need saving because they don't.

Minorities don't need toxic handouts, fake pitty, or your permission. They need you to shut up and and move the hell out of their fight so they have the esteem from doing it themselves.

Black live matters and liberal handouts are the biggest scams in history. It weakens people, leaving us nothing but feeble persons of no ability to care for themselves. It's abusive.

Thanks @TheMiddleWay for your reply.

I'm not at all sure that Google does comply, even assuming the table is correct.

First, my understanding is that the black population in CA is 5.5% of the total, so they would be somewhat under at 4%; note that the black population in CA is declining, as it used to be 7.7%. (In both cases, i'm quoting by memory numbers from the MSM, so there are two possible sources for error [my memory, and their accuracy], but i think i remember the numbers because they were so striking.)

The second point is that the data presented here does not tell which percentage of the engineering force is black, just the overall percentage, or perhaps, the percentage of "tech workers". Some of them may be stuffed into HR positions, and others may not be ADOS, which is where, imvho, any issues of morality come into play.

@TheMiddleWay as stated somewhere in the thread, personality, and I might add authenticity, plays a huge role in the interview. You could declare raceism or gender discrimination but you'll never really know unless a pattern emerges from the same business over and over. After that, you've got a lawsuit.

@TheMiddleWay it actually would explain it, in my opinion, as much as the racism thing

@TheMiddleWay you would have to recreate the same study, over and over, with the same batch of companies to be able to be sure that what you are concluding is actually the case. It's a bias conclusion.

@TheMiddleWay so are all metropolises in the study from divergent locations of social belief perception? I know people think and feel differently in Portland Oregon than other places. I'm just saying, those studies can indicate certain things but they don't provide proof of anything.

@TheMiddleWay I'm honestly not sure. Maybe we should ask a truck driver

sorry... this post is in progress... will go live in a week

@Admin Ah okay, all good.

#FreeMarkets

@ZuzecaSape Until you get smear campaigns and politically motivated boycotts by people who don't believe in the free market...