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Are we in for a Covid-19 "Dark Winter"?

The handling of Covid has been a debated topic for months - the Democrats claim lock downs are effective at slowing the spread whereas Trump has pushed for reopening schools and the economy.

In the summer time, Liberal news mocked Trump's handing of the outbreak and compared the United States' 25,000 daily cases with that of the European Union's 4,000 daily cases. However, the EU has seen a recent sharp spike in Covid cases where the US has not yet followed.

Even the current situation is debatable. In the last presidential debate, Trump said that we're "rounding the turn" but Joe Biden said, “We’re about to go into a dark winter”. What do you think? Expect a vaccine coming anytime soon? Would you take it? Why has the EU and US covid rates taken such different paths?

By the end of this year, the US will see...

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Admin 8 Oct 27
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8

A lot of new cases doesn't mean a "winter", it means that herd immunity is near. I advise strongly against lock downs, because the virus is not very lethal and lock downs cause huge damage.

Corjova Level 6 Oct 27, 2020
7

The COVID spreads exactly like any other variety of corona virus diseases. It IS just another (albeit new) strain of the kinds of viruses (corona) that are known as the common cold and influenza. The virus itself is no hoax but it should be more than obvious to everyone that the alarmism, the lock downs, the forced mask wearing dictates are coming directly from the political class and are foisted upon the general population - furthermore this "alarmist" campaign is obvious propaganda whose purpose is to cause as much discomfort and anger as possible for as long as President Trump remains in office.
The obvious intent is two sided. On one hand the political class is "punishing" the great middle who elected Trump and they hope to destroy Trumps populism. They hoping to foment anger on the electorate toward Donald Trump.
That is the "hoax" - the panic is almost literally the boy crying wolf. Calling out a degree of danger that just does not exist.

I hesitate to do this but I have a deeply personal story to tell:

On Oct 18th my wife died. She was 80 years old and had been living in a memory care facility for more than 3 years. About 2 years before she died my wife had lost the ability to stand or walk. She was always either lying in bed or sitting in a wheelchair and not unexpectedly she had developed a mild case of pneumonia about a year ago. We got her over that with normal administering of good nursing practices and drugs and oxygen. She also had lost the ability to use her voice. Her ability to swallow and to feed herself also had gone away. In order to feed her we had to puree' her food and hand feed her. In her diminished health my wife had very serious "co-morbid" conditions. When the Corona Virus came along many residents of the facility became ill - and died. My wife is the most recent case of that.
She was taken to the ER late evening on Oct 18th. I stood by her side for the next 28 hours or so and I remained beside her, holding her hand and talking to her until she died at 3pm on Oct 19th.
I knew full well that I was exposing myself to the COVID and I would not hesitate to do the same thing again. NO ONE should have to die in isolation. I was not going to abandon my wife on her death bead. about 24 hours after her death I began to have symptoms of the COVID. It is no fun but I have not been in danger of fatal outcome with it. At this point - about 8 days since onset - I am feeling a bit better. No fever (haven't taken tylenol since 2am. Body aches are much diminished - again, no tylenol today. I am recovering nicely.
The point of this story is that while the COVID is no joy ride it is in fact no different - no less nor more fatal than the common cold or mild flu. Elderly and otherwise co-morbid compromised people should be no more concerned about the Novel Corona virus than they are about any other previously existing varieties of the virus itself. If my wife had contracted any other variety of the virus the result would have been the same.

The ghouls in MSM, the "political classes" the Politicians should all be called out for their Machevellian ways. They should be publicly pilloried and run out of town on the proverbial rail for the harm they are doing.

iThink Level 9 Oct 27, 2020

@TheMiddleWay Every year large numbers of residents die in these care facilities - especially where the average age of the residents is well above age 80. This year it happens to be COVID 19 - last year it was some other variety of corona virus - a severe cold or flu..all corona viruses. I do not know if there is much if any spike in deaths from upper respiratory infection this year as compared to years previously. I do know that in the 3 plus years my wife was in the particular facility at least several dozen residents have perished. Most of them had developed upper respiratory infections - pneumonia. Most of them had some variety of cold or flu symptoms. Families with loved ones in such a facility are fully aware that if and when their grandma gets a sniffle pneumonia isn't far behind. Naturally rate of deaths in such facilities is much higher than rate of death across the general population. I spoke with a number of doctors about Peggys death. When I said that if she had contracted any variety of virus - old or "novel" the result would have been the same. They agreed with me. Peggy was seriously compromised and it was in my humble opinion and sad to say all but inevitable that she would die as she did - Novel virus or otherwise. It was must a matter of when - not if - as it is for all residents in such facilities.
There is no excuse - no logical reason to "quarantine" all individuals - to restrict human contact - to shut down society except for the sake of political expediency and SHAME on those who have done this dirty work.

@TheMiddleWay that's because like Gov Cuomo they forced such facilities to take in people who were already infected with the virus. Further compromising an already at risk group of people.

@TheMiddleWay either covid is unusually deadly and cuomo did wrong by sending people back ( my opinion) or covid is no different than any other cold and flu and cuomos decision was right

this is an illogical assertion in that you completely ignore the deliberate and intentional introduction of a given contagion into an already vulnerable population. Much like how the vast majority of Native American deaths happened because of their lack of immunity to diseases like influenza, small pox, consumption...etc.

@TheMiddleWay you are obviously desperately in need for your ideas about COVID to be true in order to validate the evil behaviors of your favorite socialist politicians. New move: "Desperately Seeking Validation and Confirmation" starring "The middle Way" ...

@iThink Lol, he called them ghouls again, that's funny.

7

I firmly believe that there is a virus. I just as strongly believe that numbers are being played with and the impact is being used for political agendas.

7

I get the feeling that if Trump wins the lockdowns/Covid winter won't be unbearable, and the opposite should Biden win the Presidency. I won't be getting a vaccine should one be invented soon, too many unknowns for such a new vaccine (for the record, I am not an anti-vaxxer). Lockdowns are not the solution.

6

A few observations.

The severity of Covid 19 seems dose dependent. When comparing Japan to Italy who both have a high percentage of elderly and keeping in mind dose dependency culture plays a role, specifically hugging, kissing, hand shaking, and a lack of ventilation as well as alcohol consumption, poor diets and low vitamin D3 levels. Even in asymptomatic cases the virus damages the heart and other organs which may be seen as a significant increase in cardiovascular and other chronic illness for decades. Masks according to my research represent an 8 percent reduction in spread, which considering that in many places at various times the rt hovers around 1 is significant. Epidemiological models are not science they use science. The only reliable statistic is excess mortality which more or less agrees with the fatality estimates but because the Flu seems to have disappeared some adjustment is required. Vaccines may only be 30 percent effective. There are so many factors to consider that predicting the course of the pandemic is nearly impossible.

Although I'm not a fan of the UN WHO is right lock downs are not the answer, there are too many unintended consequences. Lock downs particularly punish the poor while the educated classes do not suffer the consequences of their policies to the same extent.

The effect of the pandemic needs to measured in lost years of life not deaths which is more complicated than many people would imagine.

The pandemic has highlighted the more serious health crisis related to lifestyle. Diabetes, obesity and heart disease is it's own epidemic, especially in the working class and poor. The saying that you can't fix stupid comes to mind. All the virtue signaling in the world by the educated classes is not going to resolve the intellectual and emotional deficit. Programs such as head start demonstrate the utter failure of policy makers to face reality. While the intellectually elite can navigate the pit falls of a decadent culture a large percentage of the population cannot. Less competent individuals cannot create their own meaning in life or navigate the complexity of relationships that are ungrounded. Where religion once mitigated lust, gluttony, and insobriety the educational system has found no alternative. The cult of social justice has proven a poor substitute and seems destined to only increase poverty both physical and emotional.

wolfhnd Level 8 Oct 27, 2020
6

Not reasonable to project, as the political element driving inaccurate testing has increased the number of known cases, even though the actual number of cases may remain unchanged, or even declining. We have no way of knowing, especially with daily reports from medical professionals being coerced to falsify causation toward COVID.

5

I know someone who works in the Medical field and some of my reporting here is personal information transferred via that source, for example:

  1. Orders Top Down to Nurses "Hand over your masks, don't wear them." Nurses refuse Top Down order for cause: we know better.

  2. People die from specific symptoms, standardized treatments of specific treatments are still not Top Down orders, whereby Top Down initial orders (intubation) was MISTREATMENT, based upon obvious MISDIAGNOSIS, and at least locally the "better" treatments are not - again - standardized Top Down.

  3. There was no first wave of pandemic proportion, it was much less than reported, and specific symptoms that threaten life were rare when compared to the "pandemic" predictions. Here it is important to note the "call for intubating machines" to MISTREAT a MISDIAGNOSIS was, and apparently is endemic.

The Global Treasonous Pandemic Fraud is one thing.

A set of symptoms which had lead to deaths is factual, and worldwide.

False and misleading diagnosis is factual, and worldwide.

False and misleading treatment is factual, and worldwide.

The claimed Authorities (people associated with corporations known as WHO, CDC, NIH, etc.) have not reported that they have identified the cause of the "set of symptoms that lead to death" other than to call the set of symptoms that lead to death by the names Covid-19, Pandemic, and to then issue reports suggesting treatment, based upon an obvious, admitted, NONDIAGNOSIS.

Other claimed Authorities (people no longer associated with the opposing authorities listed as Who, CDC, NIH, etc.) have identified the cause of a specific set of symptoms leading to death as a Bioweapon of very specific design, and there is a Patent on the design, as far as I know, so far.

Group A, which I will call those who have accurately identified the cause of the set of symptoms that cause death, which is a Patented Bioweapon include people who treat the cause of this set of symptoms with advice that includes methods by which people strengthen their natural, internal, immune systems, such as detox, nutrition, sunlight, clean air, clean water, exercise, human contact, etc.

Group B, which I will call those who have NOT accurately identified the cause of the set of symptoms that cause death, and I know this because they claim that the way to accurately identify the cause of the set of symptoms that cause death is The Gold Standard, which is to isolate the suspected "virus" (microorganism) using Standard Procedures (see: Koch's Postulates) known to identify suspected microorganisms, and then match the introduction of that specific microorganism to the specific set of symptoms Scientifically. That group apparently does not want to have the connections made between the Patented Bioweapon and themselves personally as individuals.

Now, as to the Advertisement Slogan "Second Wave."

PCR tests, according to the inventor of it, are NOT to be used as a diagnosis tool. So to do so, to use a PCR test as a diagnosis tool IS mistreatment by design. False negatives, false positives, false data, garbage in, is thereby going to "justify" (rationalize) garbage out: mistreatment, death, destruction, fear, and transfers of Power and Profit from the mistreated to those who are by design orchestrating the mistreatment based upon the MISDIAGNOSIS, that WILL be MISDIAGNOSIS because these criminals are insisting upon using PCR tests.

PCR tests take a sample from the testee (victim) and AMPLIFY the test sample to ensure that the test will MISDIAGNOS the testee (victim) as yet another Covid-19 patient added to the "Second Wave." Keep in mind that there was no first "Wave."

People have died from a specific set of symptoms that may or may not be the result of contact between the individual who dies and the bioweapon created in a lab in China.

More people will die.

When those who profit because they enforce their Global Treasonous Pandemic Fraud do so, they profit, they grow more powerful, and all their victims, the dead ones, the sick ones, the loved ones, grow weaker by the minute, the hour, and the day.

Group B, by the way, are known to keep meticulous records as to just exactly how much they profit from each victim, so claims of lack of inculpatory evidence that can be used in a trial for defense of the innocent victims from the guilty criminals are lies, parts of the fraud, and if you ever move to Group A, from Group B, or move from offender to defender, then this fact matters: the criminals keep meticulous records that constitute inculpatory evidence that proves their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

5

What exactly is a dark winter, Joe? What exactly would you do about it? People love to blame Trump for everything, when the truth is no one knew much about this virus until it was too late, and state and local governments, many of which are run by Democrats, were free to enforce their own restrictions anyway.

Who knows how many cases we'll see. My responsibility is to practice good hygiene and protect those around me who are most vulnerable. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I've gotten only one flu shot in my life, and it wasn't a good experience. Why would I get one for covid, especially this early in the game?

4

The second wave is sweeping across Europe. It's coming to the U.S. The actions taken by those in charge and societies compliance will dramatically affect the outcome. Politicising this pandemic by both sides has been a catastrophe that could have been avoided. Discrediting scientists and medical experts is possibly the worst thing to happen so far.
If the same behaviour continues and the denial of the gravity of the situation persists, the infection and death rates are going to escalate.
A vaccine is possible but not certain.
Take care everyone and try to see through the politics.

Thank you, and you take care as well.

4

Funny how very few have called out controlled media for their "DEATH MODELS" made in late February that justified our lock downs, yet the same media is now using "CASES" instead of deaths. This is not about health-care/safety. This is about control.

Cases are meaningless, especially for a virus that you need to be tested for, to see if you even have it!

Because of the Draconian lock down policies, cancers are not being diagnosed early. Dental work is not getting done. Regular flu deaths are almost non-existent compared with the same time last year. Drug overdoses are at record levels. Corporate and personal bankruptcies are sky-rocketing. Suicides rates are off the charts.

4

We shall see more phony statistics arrived at by phony Covid tests conducted by phony medical professional and talked up by fake journalists and politicians. The New Normal is upon us.

3

"Trump said that we're "rounding the turn" but Joe Biden said, “We’re about to go into a dark winter”

I may be reading into Trumps "rounding the turn" comments, but to me they are about optimism about the progress we (and the world) have made in regards to the vaccine and combative drugs.

Bidens "dark winter", very well could be very true also. Considered the already high steady count of infected and hospitalizations. We also have flu and other popular winter contagions to possibly contend with. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see flu get diagnosed COVID etc. (Meaning, scientists saying flu complications because of COVID, like how other deaths have been labeled COVID regardless of other factors)

I put 75,000+ cases, but it easily could be a lot more. The infected numbers, while somewhat alarming, don't make me as worried as the hospitalization numbers.

Also, just an add, I still don't see how tightening lock downs or upping other health mandates until the vaccine is made, is a practical solution. It just seems kind of stupid that a persons place of residence is "COVID free", but any other building isn't. Additionally, it's going to be near impossible to get Americans to just "play along" with lockdowns after our "summer of love".

3

Covid is real and the second wave — just like with the Spanish Flu — is here. How dark the winter will be depends on whether we choose to celebrate Christmas and New Years in large groups and a lot of travel. Covid really took hold last year with a massive travel binge for the Chinese New Year and big family celebrations.

Much of the spread is unnecessary. The best, and most ignored, example of how to manage Covid comes from Taiwan, a tiny island that’s just one-quarter the size of Florida. Among its 26-million people, Taiwan has recorded only eight Covid deaths. No lockdown, and schools and businesses open.

The World Health Organization doesn’t talk about this success story because Taiwan does not exist in the eyes of China and the United Nations.

The United States has already lost 231,000 people. If America had the same Covid fatality rate as Taiwan, only 100 Americans would have died.

I agree that we’ve all been misled by public health officials on certain points and that the WHO is all about politics not health. So much has been fumbled from the beginning. The pandemic has become an excuse for crazy overspending by governments everywhere. It’s been obscenely politicized, especially by the Dems. We’re all learning as we go. But none of this makes Covid less real.

The problem is that most westerners would never accept the measures that are effective in many Asian countries: almost universal mask wearing, temperatures measured as a condition of entering a building and stringent contact tracing. Are these measures to protect your neighbours and your community, or are they serious infringements on personal freedom?

The challenge of controlling the pandemic is more a cultural, then a health issue.

GeeMac Level 8 Oct 27, 2020

The only evidence for this second wave is in the media. None of the hospitals here are inundated. Our "case numbers" appear to continually climb but our cemeteries are not filling up either.

Herd immunity is the only way out of this. NO ONE has created a safe and effective RNA virus vaccination, and certainly not for any coronavirus (MADE IN CHINA LABS).

We still do not have a vaccine for SARS1 (ALSO MADE IN CHINA LABS) (2001-2003)...because most of us already carry the SARS1 antibodies by now...which is why so many are asymptomatic.

Let this virus run thru. Protect the vulnerable. Develop HERD IMMUNITY and move on (throw the fuckings masks away! They cause so many respiratory and ear infections)

3

SCAREdemic. First of all it is not a pan demic which involved whole countries not just diverse parts. This c-19 scam thing has stank to high heaven since it's start. Blaming it on old folks who have other disease and when they die claiming it was c-19 that killed them. I bet the real death rate is a fraction of what they claim. A major part is to keep old folks scared to death and not go to polls to voter TRUMP 2020. This is also a dry run to see how they can control populations with fear of disease and death. Never a word about all the illegal crime deaths and direct result of OD's and life long impairment from the leftist pushing and glamorizing of drugs for decades. Makes the virus look like a walk in the park and a joke.

3

The simple reason why countries have such diverse paths, is simply because of different testing regimes.
Europe was first and had poor testing, the vast majority of cases was missed... and hence they have very high case mortality rates. The USA was later and did much more testing, much more cases but much lower CFR.
Then Africa and India followed even later with very good testing regimes and we see very large cases but CFR’s of 2% and less.
Now we are seeing massive cases in Europe because they are testing everybody... and extremely low CFR.
We are now beginning to see the true fatality rates ~ 0,4% or about twice that of the common cold.

Hanno Level 8 Oct 27, 2020
2

The numbers in the US are completely inaccurate due to not telling the public that many of these people died from other complications(CCP virus can co-exist with flu and colds along with other respiratory issues), and that the CCP virus was just present, and respiratory issues some of these people were smokers, drug users, and when they were diagnosed they had CCP virus but the flu and other respiratory infections is what they died from not the CCP virus.
What they are not putting in the reports is the Cycle Threshold Value, which is necessary to deciding what actions to take, if you do not know what the CTV is take a gander at this article: [theepochtimes.com]
A lot of these cases the tests are possibly picking up remnants of the virus weeks later.
When they say cases, one needs to understand what that actually entails.
If the cases were reported in three sections low range, mid range, and high range CTV number, people will be better at ease but it could drop the cases in the low to mid range to almost nothing and the high range with majority of cases. What do you think would happen if it was found out that someone's grandmother died from Covid19 with a CTV of 38, there could be a possibility that the doctors were treating the wrong thing.
You also add in the fact that the CCP virus possibly been in the US since September 2019, it really loses its scare value.

2

Lockdowns do stop the spread... they also kill your economy.
Victoria (state) was put in lockdown for 111 days... it went from 795 infections a day to 0, but it took a long time and inconvenienced a lot of people (millions). But it did stop the spread and now it is under control.
Now those new infections can be quarantined or hospitalised without destroying the health system.
Now lockdowns if necessary can be localised and not affect everyone or destroy the economy.
The thing with the US is that it has let it spread too far... this is not exactly Trump's fault after all you have states that have health responsibilities just as we do over here. What everyone needs to address is the fact that everyone is responsible for this. You need to minimise risk of infection and to do that you need to social distance, wear masks where appropriate, limit your travel and be hygenic. I'm pretty sure all these things have already been covered over there.
One of the dumbest things Trump said was limit testing... WRONG... you needed to know where the virus is and who has it to limit and stop the spread. You needed to protect the elderly and those with comorbidities to limit the deaths.

You have about 331 million people, about 9 million have tested positive for the virus and about 230,000 have died.
Odds are, that if there is no vaccine and US citizens don't wise up and take some precautions given a worse case scenario, you could have 4-5 million people dead before this thing has run its course. However long that takes.
YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR HEALTH.
ACT RESPONSIBLY, BE RISK AVERSE.

1

The virus has been infecting people since the end of 2019. Where I work, people have the antibodies but didn't realize that the "flu" they thought they had was CV-19.

We should practice what our moms taught us: wash your hands, cover your mouth when you cough and sneeze, and keep your house and yourself clean. For the more fragile, do the same things necessary if it was a flu outbreak: keep clear of people, use a mask, get rest, etc.

1

COVID deaths are dropping because medical professionals are getting more experience every day on how to be more “patient specific” in their treatment.

Wearing N-95 mask is analogous to trying to stop a mosquito with a chain link fence. Washing your hands and other proper hygiene practices will help control the spread of the virus. More people are recognizing this fact and doing it.

1

First, the question seems flawed. Your text says that the U.S. has 25,000 daily cases, but your poll question talks about 75,000 daily cases. I'm not sure that either number is accurate. I'm skeptical of the liberal news media's claim that the U.S. numbers were significantly different from the E.U. numbers. The numbers also have to be compared to the number of tests done. If a country does fewer tests, that country will see fewer positive results.

Secondly, living a "boy in the plastic bubble" lifestyle weakens a person's immune system. We need regular exposure at low levels to a variety of germs for our immune systems to stay at peak activity. The lockdowns are likely contributing to the severity of sicknesses by weakening everyone's immune systems. I know that the left doesn't have the integrity to admit this fact or even allow this discussion on many platforms, but this is the truth. We are making the situation worse through the lockdowns.

Thirdly, low morale is bad for a person's health. The lockdowns are bad for our morale on several fronts. People are out of work and seeing the loss of all that they've worked to achieve. They are missing the chance to enjoy activities that mean a great deal to them. Those of religious faith are denied the exercise of their faith in the way that they want. This loss of morale is making everything worse.

Fourthly, people are missing health screening for other diseases and being denied any kind of elective surgery. We will have greater losses due to cancer and other diseases in the future because we have shut down our healthcare system over COVID-19. Those deaths will be far more than would happen if we re-opened everything and lived our normal lives. We will have lower quality of life because people don't get treatment for other conditions.

Only a small number of people die solely from the virus. Most deaths happen because the victims' bodies are weakened by COVID-19 so that other infections become more serious. The zinc portion of the HCQ cocktail may help stop the virus, but the other drugs in that cocktail stop the other infections. Parts of the medical bureaucracy are fighting the use of this treatment, but the treatment would lessen the effect of this disease and reduce the number of deaths or serious complications.

I suffered a severe allergic reaction to the last vaccination I took. The doctor told me not to take the vaccination again. When I asked about protection and immunity, he said that I wouldn't catch the disease if I were already dead. While that was a different vaccination, we don't know what component in the vaccination caused the reaction. I've explained the situation to nurses and doctors at work when I've been offered optional vaccinations, and they've always declined to give me those optional vaccinations. I wouldn't take the vaccination if I had a choice.

I also believe that the drug companies are just playing games to market new products. They are rejecting the HCQ cocktail because those drugs are low profit products. They'd rather reject a simple solution that doesn't make them money and promote something else that will make them a great deal of money. In that sense, the medical bureaucracy no longer puts patient care at the top but is just another industry trying to market a product regardless of the health of the customers. I don't look down on the fast food industry for doing that because the fast food industry doesn't pretend to be about health. I look down on medical industry for doing that.

1

I fear the democrats would pretty much BAN CHRISTMAS if they win.

Trump has allowed people to say MERRY CHRISTMAS again! reply saying MERRY CHRISTMAS if you love Trump for promoting western values!

bastion Level 7 Oct 27, 2020
1

If the demoncrats win: expect the end of the country. Critial Race Theory / BLM / Antifa : hell on earth.

If the Republicans win : the FAKE NEWS will continue to lie about the CHINA VIRUS which is actually very safe!

bastion Level 7 Oct 27, 2020
1

Fewer than 20K new cases daily.

1

It is on the same summer, fall, winter, spring track as the regular virus, cold and flu season. That is why it is increasing right now if you can believe it. This is just like common sense folk said 8 months ago.

0

Just think if this was all real. You would not escape it by masks, social distance etc. If as bad as they say, how come no wearing gloves. A BAN ON SMOKING and selling Tobacco? IF it was like they say it is, just going in a grocery store would get you infected...no matter what you did...period.

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