If you want to change someone's ideas, I'd advise the following:

1. Act in good faith
2. Assume good faith on their part
3. Learn more about their ideas
4. Make an argument based on #3

You can't - it's like teaching a pig to dance. You just waste your time and annoy the pig.

I've been moderating (discussing possible truths with those who want to know better from worse) with progressives since at least 1980 or so...

That is 40 years of experience.

"One example is that progressives think that Conservatives don't care about the poor while the fact is they donate more to charity than liberals. Can you think of other examples?"

Progressives include individuals who belong in the following categories:

1. False propagandists (who intend to deceive so as to harm: frauds)
   a. Paid false propagandists
   b. Pro-bono false propagandists

2. Brainwashed (Indoctrinated purposefully in Public Schools by Group 1a)
   a. They are taught to spread false propaganda and they are taught not to question false propaganda and they are strictly obedient (see: Gulag Archipelago by Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn)
   b. They still question their brainwashing, they are not strictly obedient

3. Curious people having connected to false propaganda and are as yet not connected to alternative narratives that are not intentionally false
   a. They are eager to spread false propaganda because that is all they know so far
   b. They already question the false propaganda naturally, internally, as too much of it is self-evidently self-contradictory.

All of the above applies equally to "Conservatives," so an example worthy pointing out to those whose minds are not turned off internally by brainwashing is the process known by many words such as The Hegelian Dialectic, or Divide and Conquer. When people see that there are many other people other than the 2 sides of the 2 Party Politics Con Game, they are then sometimes willing to investigate why people are not party to the 2 Party Political Con Game.

Seriously though...

1. Stop feeding them.
2. Teach them the safe way to use and maintain a firearm
3. Return Civics and Debating to the classroom

and this one is my personal favorite....
4. Teach them Logic, Reasoning, Philosophy and research skills. The most impactful university course, I ever took was a fourth year elective in civil engineering which taught us the logical fallacies and required us to write one "short" paper each weak that identified fallacies in current newspaper articles. I still do it today. I wrote 10 page papers on 500 word articles.

Never mind "moderate them", how do you get them to shut up?

Great question. Wish I had the answer.

With the post-modernists who drive most of the woke-progressive unrest, discussion is impossible because they pride themselves in rejecting the concepts of truth, reason and rationality. If you accept their view that my “feelings” construct my world, then facts and reasoning have no value. Therefore, if somebody “feels” like a woman, he is a woman, in spite of the fact that he has a penis.

The other obstacle is that post-modernists have effectively convinced the public — both left and right — to be skeptical to the extreme. So if I present verifiable figures showing Barack Obama deported almost twice as many southern border crossers in his first two years than Donald Trump deported, they simply reject the figures outright.

Similarly, Steven Pinker gives meticulously footnoted research in The Better Angels of Our Nature and The Case For Enlightenment Now, but factions of both the left and the right simply reject the data as “false”.

Ironically, as both sides readily reject peer-reviewed facts, they often enthusiastically embrace wild conspiracy theories.

We can no longer communicate because an open mind is seen as a weakness, and conceding point to the opposition is seen as a betrayal.

People only moderate their positions when they are motivated to educate themselves. And that is becoming more and more a rarity.

As a few others have said, when speaking with Progressives or Conservatives, the best approach is to act in good faith and try to actually understand their position. Crying out "socialism" or "racism" isn't helpful for speaking with either side. Too often people like to use always-expanding strawmen or demonization to try and tell you what the other side believes and wants to do, while not actually listening to people from the other side, or just calling them liars. It's no wonder there is such a divide right now.

Which flavor of progressive are we talking about? Is it the confirmed, hard-core ideologue for whom the cause is a religious crusade? Or is it those who Lenin referred to as the “useful idiots?”

For the former variety, logic and reason have no place in their world view, a faith-based perspective no less fervent than a devout Christian’s facing arguments that the virgin birth and the resurrection couldn’t have happened. The beautiful thing about faith is that logical assaults make it stronger. Belief in things for which there is no evidence is a badge of honor.

The second group offers more potential, but only inasmuch as they think their support for progressive programs is a logical choice. They’re the ones who are genuinely moved by “equality” and “fairness” and who think BLM is really about saving black lives. They’ll show up to the protests and carry signs, and they’ll cast their vote for the candidate that makes them feel good about themselves, but if you try to get them to examine their assumptions, it gets stressful. In the event you are successful in that effort, any potential conversion will be no more substantive than their previous position. They’ll do whatever makes them feel good.

The ideologue is a true believer and will view any attempt to induce a modified world view as proof of your heresy. The dilettante is much more amenable, but their lack of substance makes any discussion kind of pointless.

Yeah, I’m a cynic. It’s a more fruitful use of my time examining my own assumptions.

Because most progressive beliefs are based, not on logic and reasoning, but on emotional attachments, it is next to impossible to convince them of anything other than the irrational concepts they hold. Besides, most people seem to have a revulsion to being found to be wrong, no matter what the cost of continuing to maintain their mistaken beliefs.

Most libs are the most selfish super narcissistic fools you will even come across. I have known many, used to be one and have lots in my family. They they get away with this total BS, that they care is a cosmic JOKE. They care out of some sad coughed up covid duty, not because they really care. It is only a sordid flaccid psudo-intellectual exercise in self delusion cranked out of the foul mud of illogical look at me, I'm a walking, talking, virtue signal.

Once upon a time I spent A LOT of time trying to reason, logic and offer proofs to “Liberals”. ( “Progressive” is simply another name these people have taken and distorted ... just like ‘Liberal” )
After all, I spent most of my adult life in Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens ... where EVERYBODY “with a Brain” identified as “Liberal”.
It was a Total Waste of Time ...
Regardless of ANY manner of debate, there was NO getting through to them.
I could get them to where they couldn’t present a rebuttal ... where they would be “forced” to agree for hours ... and the next day, it was like the entire conversation NEVER Happened.
It destroyed LOTS of potential relationships as I was considered to be “Unreasonable and Heartless” ...
NOT “Stupid” because I was simply too smart for that but ...
Their determination was typically that I wouldn’t “Play Well With Others”.

Being a classical liberal makes me a bona fide progressive. That Ministry of Truth proclamation that leftism is "progressive" needs to be discredited.

At jacksonnought. No, I’m not saying all gays are pedos. I’m saying many of them are, because, they are. I’m saying there is a real connection here.

Yes there were outed pedophile drag queens. Also, I want to know why drag queens in general want to be around little kids? Because they do want this and they do dress and behave in very sexual ways when with kids.

Why this desire to be around kids?

Again you have grown men on all fours doing stripper like dance moves to an audience of impressionable kids one was a little innocent 3 yr old girl on a chair that he was doing some kind of solo dance for. At a certain point the man turned around and had is posterior pointed at the child...on all fours.

You’re like...nothing to see here. And, well that’s the sort of thing they do, apparently, at Catholic Churches, so...

This is documented you can’t argue against this. This is what I mean when I state the truth that gay and pedo are connected. Or are you going to make the argument that not all of these drag queens are gay? Yeah ole miss Q over there in fishnet stilettos is straight as an arrow.

Here’s the thing about the Catholic Church and Christianity. What happened was done by people who were not at all consistent with the teachings of the church. They were corrupted. You make it sound as though the church actually teaches pedophia is good and therefore promotes this. You’re just being straight-up ignorant.

Worse still is that there is a force promoting pedophila and it’s liberals who include gays. It was hollywood that fawns over the issues with the church yet they a huge hotbed for sexual abuse of all kinds. Corey Feldman has made this clear. Once again, second mention, you have “cuties” being released. Clearly pedophilic.

And again, what corner of society is pushing for drag queen story hours? What corner of society has open aire sex festivals that do include children as participants?

Oh yeah, that’s the Catholic Church, right?

Look, I feel like your a good communist in Stalin’s Russia that got locked up in the gulag and still refuses to accept the truth.

Gnash your teeth all you want. This is the truth and your side, liberal, is revealing this truth. Because you are trying to “normalize” this and in doing so you inadvertently reveal the machinations of child sex abuse. It’s only a matter of time until this comes to the surface. It’s systemic it’s in go poetry and art etc.

I am a progressive but you lying cunts promised me a commie president.

Biden is NOT A fucking commie.

Burn in hell, you fucking pedos !

I seriously doubt anyone, left or right, adopts, maintains, or switches their political position based on arguments. I’ve never witnessed it at any rate... unless they were very young and still forming their views. I’m betting it has more to do with their personal psychology, life experiences, religious beliefs, economic status, and identity commitments.

Ever try to get through to a person that has been in a cult - nuff said....

The best thing to repeat to progressives is that they are in fact a small minority held in contempt by intelligent people. Once they understand this, groupthink cannot hold. Another thing is that they think that loyalty to some Democratic fool with grandiose pretentions is progressive. In fact Republican candidate Kim Klacik has more progressive arguments than her Democratic opponents.

I have managed to get them to see the light individually... but eventually they all, without exception, fall back to the collective groupthink.

So as much as we try, I think we will all fail with these people.

Progressives cannot tolerate dissent.

To really change a viewpoint from either side you must pose a genuine question and leave it to sit with the person.

I agree with progressives on secularism, gay rights, and healthcare , and Israel

I disagree with em on immigration and huge government

I am a Tribal Socialist Nationalist

If a person is neurotic than the conversation is not really about facts, or intellectual debate, but something else. Let me explain. Every person has three needs, to be accepted, to feel secure and to be significant.

We have the same emotional needs but different ways of trying to meet them. Some ways are more neurotic than others.

“Neurotic suffering indicates inner conflict. Each side of the conflict is likely to be a composite of many partial forces, each one of which has been structured into behavior, attitude, perception, value. Each component asserts itself, claims priority, insists that something else yield, accommodates. The conflict therefore is fixed, stubborn, enduring. It may be impugned and dismissed without effect, imprecations and remorse are of no avail, strenuous acts of will may be futile; it causes - yet survives and continues to cause - the most intense suffering, humiliation, rending of flesh. Such a conflict is not to be uprooted or excised. It is not an ailment, it is the patient himself. The suffering will not disappear without a change in the conflict, and a change in the conflict amounts to a change in what one is and how one lives, feels, reacts.”

― Allen Wheelis, How People Change

“Neurotics complain of their illness, but they make the most of it, and when it comes to taking it away from them they will defend it like a lioness her young.” ― Sigmund Freud

“The tenacity with which the neurotic adheres to any attitude is a sure indication that the attitude fulfills functions which seem indispensable in the framework of his neurosis.” ― Karen Horney, Neurosis and Human Growth: The Struggle Towards Self-Realization

Regressive politics, trying to sound noble, calling itself progressive, has become a safe space for neurotic individuals avoiding responsibility of dealing with their own neurosis. And it has become normalized. Off course problem you can't talk about is now two problems and its like quick sand, a downward spiral. First for individual and than in large numbers for nation.

None of us is correct all the time. But when one acquires good habits, one can generally be much less wrong. There is a reason I'm beginning with an aside: namely there are ways in which we can know the rightness of things, but rather than get all pedantic about it, I'll share an anecdote I recently heard:

It kind of starts with caring about a specific person. Here's what I mean: The founder of the #walkaway movement was a (gay) progressive that pretty much accepted all the stories he was spoon fed. A very good friend of his very patiently got him to agree to watch one video on the fact that Donald Trump did NOT make fun of a handicapped reporter. The movement founder had some respect for his good friend, so he agreed to watch the video. He fully expected not to be convinced, but the video actually showed decades worth of footage of Trump using the exact hand gestures he made with the disabled reporter when he meant to convey he thought the question or statement was ridiculous.

So ultimately there was no arguing with decades of archival footage or the implication that the media had to be deliberately lying.

But ultimately, what this fellow asserts is that he never would have had his eyes opened to the truth if his friend hadn't cared about him enough to gently present this evidence.

Now this friend might have been wrong and her evidence could have been weak, but it wasn't, and ultimately, it was convincing.

Later on though, he tried presenting the same evidence to other friends of his, and was soundly rejected. I believe, and so does he, that it was because for him, newly red pilled, the issue came first. But in his case, the care came first, and the issue came second. And ultimately , this is how he comes across now, as a caring person that also is in possession of some facts, rather than the other way around.

This has been my experience also. Assuming you happen to be right, you start with love and care and understanding, then you have a chance of getting your point to register. It's always hard to do, always takes a lot of care and effort, and is usually worth the effort. That's what I've personally found.

At jacksonnaught. And yet I keep repeating over and over to you. There are drag queen story hours where overly sexualized men get access to kids. Once again, an 11 yr old boy dressed as a whore did a sex dance in front of adult homosexual men. ??? It’s like...duh.

This is all fact. All you have are nuanced comments. And you keep insisting to bring religion into this. Why? Okay there was an issue in the Catholic Church, but, to conflate, as you are, that by saying gays are pedos is the same as Catholics are pedos is baseless because what you keep missing is there is an agenda to “normailize” pedophilia. And the Catholic Church is not the source of this agenda. Sure people err or sin from all walks of life. What’s that prove?

You can be tin foil hat all you want but for the 1000th time...an 11 yr old child did a sex dance at 2 AM in front of adult gay men. And this was celebrated by liberals. Period. This happened. The Catholic Church is NOT celebrating or facilitating underage boys doing strip teases for grown gay men. Or is this something you actually believe? So where is this coming from, eh?

Our “conversation” represents the deep and irreconcilable differences in this society right now. You keep saying I’m “off the reservation”. No, I’m off of your reservation. Or put another way you are off of my reservation.

You’re consumed by your ideology. And it’s sad. Because it obscures your ability to see how things are. And so, abuse will continue.

Noughty has all the wib leftist deviance lobby sex talking points down pat. It's always society fault for being normal. Not us. Reversal propaganda is a staple of Americans enemies.

When both sides are pedophiles, being a centrist makes you a rape enabler.

I hate this e-thot but she makes a valid point, we need MORE #Cancelculture , NOT LESS.

She moved to the murder capital of the world so she could get away from Trump's new York.