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Is it possible to talk about Jewish political influence without being called anti-Semitic?

According to a 2016 Jerusalem Post article, "US Jews contribute half of all donations to the Democratic Party (and about 25% of donations to Republicans)". For 2020, among the top 25 donors, 15 are Jewish or of Jewish origin [jweekly.com] .

For a small demographic, at around 2% of the US population, to donate at a rate 25 times the national average is an incredible testament to both their financial success and desire to be involved in the political process. If the donations were from another similarly sized minority group, say Mormons or Muslims, it would be expected to see conversations of whether the goals of that group align with long-term best interest of the country in general. However, this topic seems off limits to most mainstream media often being declared inherently hateful by groups like the SPLC and ADL. Regardless if you think substantial Jewish influence is concerning or benign, is there a way to discuss it without being called anti-Semitic?

Jewish political influence is...

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6

My vote wasn't about concern, but confusion. It would appear that the donations are against their own interests. Democrats are solidly behind BDS. Dems were the loudest voices of outrage against Trump's relocation of the US embassy to Jerusalem.. even though just about every president for decades has pledged to do so. So, what gives?.. They donate overwhelmingly to the party of condescending racism and anti-Semitism. SMH..

Since no response to your question, I will. In short, a winning investment when two opponents are competing is to quietly loan finances to both, one will win and greatly reward you, the other will loose but will always owe you. When two opponents are equal, finance one to disrupt the other. To understand why they want the disruption is simple, greed and power. To understand the morals for allowing the practice you may need someone to honestly interpret the Talmud.

@MilesPurdue Honestly interpret the Talmud? Where in the Talmud does it speak to political donations?

Blame it on their long stay in Russia, where many of them absorbed Leftism. But as we've been seeing in the news lately, a growing number of them are seeing the light and doing their own "walk away" movement.

@parsifal not being able to transcribe Hebrew and knowing it would be phrased a little different you could talk to your Rabi about government motivation. I will politely stop and stay out of the theology.

@eschatologyguy granted the Judean are blamed for financial problems for the Zahrs, but Egypt did have a problem with the tribe.

@MilesPurdue So you’re guessing that’s what it says...kewl

@parsifal lol... just learned history, religion and psychology.

@MilesPurdue careful who gets to teach you. All teachers and authors have biases. Those who teach and write about what is true are biased to that end, and it's hard to tell the difference if you don't do your own investigating.

@eschatologyguy yes, a wise statement. Remind the young so they will learn more with open eyes, open heart and open mind to see what is opinion and what should be learned.

@eschatologyguy It's rather their habitual allegiance to the days of FDR who gave them a haven and defeated the hated purveyors of the holocaust.

@GaryMysels I could imagine what they must have gone through and done just to survive. It's hard for a people and a nation to be so traumatised as they had been in 70AD. And it's remarkable that they were able to come together again as a nation after 1,878 years. Even more remarkable that their coming together as a nation was predicted about half a millennia before the diaspora even occurred. I'm almost certain the 1st century rabbis weren't able to "connect the dots", as it were, of that very prediction in Jer 16:14-15.

American Jews =/= Israel. Simple as that.

5

I voted something else. I think the influence is concerning but I don't see it as a "Jewish" influence in the ecclesiastical sense but in the sense of being the influence of the world's preeminent banking industry. I'm speaking from ignorance here so correct me please because this is just a hunch. I think all the banks are itching to do away with cash and convert completely to digital currency because you can't hide digital currency under the floorboards. It seems to me that most of Trump's middle class supporters are not likely to be too fond of this idea. I don't know how much leftists would support this either. It seems that bankers have played both sides of the divide because both sides use money whether it's war or politics; it's a win/win for the banks.

Geofrank you are not showing ignorance, you may want to look a little more. Best war tactic, divide and conquer, control finances to control populace and do for the community the control you want. May get real close to why it's not talked about.

5

Jews like Germans and Americans are not all the same, not all accountable for all the same actions.

Nazis were eventually tried in a Court (not a Court of Law) and found guilty of crimes against humanity. Many Germans were against the Nazis, and many paid the price for their opposition.

Zionists are currently perpetrating virtually the same crimes perpetrated by the Nazis, and one example of such a crime is the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty, there are many more documented crimes against humanity accountable to Zionists (not all Zionists). Many Jews are against Zionism and they paid the price, are paying the price, or will pay a heavy price for that opposition.

Not all Americans are RINOS (Republican in Name Only), Fascists, Neocons, DINOS (Democratic in Name Only) Marxists/Communists, Globalist, Antifa, BLM, whatnot.

Those in power have used their power to censor opposition that opposes their power when the power in question is despotic, and those against it, everywhere, all throughout history, have to pay a cost for opposing tyranny. America is no different. The British censored opposition by initiating an aggressive war for profit, the same crimes the Nazi's were found guilty of perpetrating almost 2 centuries later. The British Loyalist Party in America after 1789 (the so-called Federalist Party) was also opposed and the standard censorship in that case was published in the form known as The Alien and Sedition Acts.

I'm not concerned with what a "group" is claimed to be responsible for perpetrating criminally, because there is no way to account for anyone in the "group" when claims are made that the "group" did it.

Claims that the "group" did something is like claiming that a gun does something. Some ONE some PLACE some TIME does some ACT and an innocent victim is injured as a result, not a group, not even when there is an angry mob claimed to be guilty of a lynching. Some ONE fomented the mob into anger, typically with liberal use of deception, and someone provided the rope, someone kidnaps the victim, someone forces the victim into the rope, someone applies the forces that end the victims life. If it takes two people to pull the weight of the victim off the ground, then those two people, each one, is guilty of that specific act, the two do not constitute a fictitious guilty being that is held accountable while those two move to the next rope and the next victim; unless the angry mob believes in lies.

P.S.

One size fits all! Way to go.

@parsifal No flies on Jews...ever!

Just on the U.S.S. Liberty incident. There have been several reports from government agencies. CIA/ FBI etc. They don't attribute blame, and instead focus on communications failures. But even if it was true, and I'll except the possibility or reality of that, I don't think it's particularly relevant to our current political scene what for all intensive purposes happened by accident in the 1967 Six Day War.

@Elijahnp Accident? Not hardly! Anyone that accepts the government's accounts of anything that takes place without going to other sources and researching the issue is accepting unchallenged lies. One source of information is the testimony of the men who were there that day. These men do not agree with you at all. Are they all liars? Why did the government shut them up? See the video Sacrificing Liberty and see and hear their testimony from their own lips.

@lawrenceblair

On any of these questions of believe versus WITNESS TESTIMONY (under oath, military personnel are to defend "the constitution" not follow orders blindly: "gag order, criminal order, made by the perpetrators or those covering it up. ):

Belief is often manufactured externally:

Martin Luther King Jr. Conspiracy Murder Trial Transcripts:


Q. Let me ask you finally -- this has
been a long road -- how you regard -- what is
your explanation for the fact that there has
been such little national media coverage of
these -- of this trial and this evidence and
this event here in this Memphis courtroom,
which is the first trial ever to be able to
produce evidence on this assassination --
what has happened here that Mighty Wurlitzer
is not sounding but is in fact totally
silent -- almost totally silent?

A. Oh, but -- as we know, silence can be
deafening. Disinformation is not only
getting certain things to appear in print,
it's also getting certain things not to
appear in print. I mean, the first -- the
first thing I would say as a way of
explanation is the incredibly powerful effect
of disinformation over a long period of time
that I mentioned before. For 30 years the
official line has been that James Earl Ray
killed Martin Luther King and he did it all
by himself. That's 30 years, not -- nothing
like the short period when the line was that
the Cubans raped the Angolan women. But for
30 years it's James Earl Ray killed Dr. King,
did it all by himself.

And when that is imprinted in the
minds of the general public for 30 years, if
somebody stood up and confessed and said: I
did it. Ray didn't do it, I did it. Here's
a movie. Here's a video showing me do it. 99
percent of the people wouldn't believe him
because it just -- it just wouldn't click in
the mind. It would just go right to -- it
couldn't be. It's just a powerful
psychological effect over 30 years of
disinformation that's been imprinted on the
brains of the -- the public. Something to
the country couldn't -- couldn't be.


[thekingcenter.org]

Now, the relevance of the information from Brendon O'Connell concerning the monopolization of Mass Media power into the hands of a few people. People having names, people having brains, people having the power to exert their will into actions, people having the power to create, propagate, and control their false narrative upon their many victims. That is a fact that matters. That is not a belief.

If people are made to believe lies - as a rule - they do not know they are deceived. Just ask them.

@Josf-Kelley What??? Pardon me for being confused by your post. Are you suggesting that the men who served on the USS Liberty, who lived through the incident, are a pack of liars?

@lawrenceblair

Are Military Personnel under any oaths?

Forgive me, I assume wrongly that my words are clearly written. I can ask a simple question, no?

4

The Jews (most) are the most racist people on the planet and this is why it matters:

SATANIC VERSES OF THE TALMUD'S
"JEWISH SUPREMACY"

  • "If a goy' (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed." (Sanhedrin 58b) *"If a Jew finds an object lost by agoy' it does not have to be returned." (Baba Mezia 24a)
  • "If a Jew murders a `goy' there will be no death penalty." (Sanhedrin 57a)
  • What a Jew steals from a `goy' he may keep." (Sanhedrin 57a)
  • "Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a `goy.'" (Baba Kamma 113a)
  • "All children of the `goyim' (Gentiles) are animals." (Yebamoth 98a)
  • "Girls born of the goyim' are in a state of
niddah' (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth." (Abodah Zarah 36b)
    SATANIC VERSES OF THE TALMUD'S
    HATRED TOWARDS THE GENTILES
  • "The `goyim' are not humans. They are beasts." (Baba Mezia 114b)
  • "If you eat with a `goy' it is the same as eating with a dog." (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)
  • "Even the best of the `goyim' should all be killed." (Soferim 15)
  • "Sexual intercourse between the `goyim' is like intercourse between animals." (Sanhedrin 74b)
  • "When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice." (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De `ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only)
    SATANIC VERSES OF THE TALMUD'S
    BLASPHEMIES AGAINST JESUS CHRIST, THE VIRGIN MARY,
    & ALL CHRISTIANS
  • "Yashu' (derogatory for
Jesus' is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement." (Gittin 57a)
    ['Yashu' is an acronym for the Jewish curse, `May his (Jesus) name be wiped out forevermore.']
  • Yashu (Jesus) was sexually immoral and worshipped a brick." (Sanhedrin 107b)
  • "Yashu (Jesus) was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness and refused to repent." (Sotah 47a)
  • "Miriam the hairdresser had sex with many men." (Shabbath 104b, Hebrew Edition only)
  • "She who was the descendant of princes and governors (the virgin Mary) played the harlot with carpenters." (Sanhedrin 106a)
  • "Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations." (Rosh Hashanah 17a)
    SEXUALLY PERVERTED CITATIONS IN THE TALMUD:
    So that you may better understand the CORRUPT DOCTRINES, MORAL DECAY and background of Rabbi Simeon Ben Yohai, PRINCIPAL AUTHOR OF THE BOOK KNOWN AS THE ZOHAR I will quote the following passages and practices condoned by Rabbi Yohai to his jewish followers from YEBAMOTH 60B WHICH LEGALIZED SEXUAL RELATIONS between jewish priests and 3 year old girls: It was taught by Rabbi Simeon Ben Yohai who stated: A proselyte who is under the age of 3 years old and 1 day is PERMIITED TO MARRY A PRIEST. For it is said, but all the women children that have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves, and Phineas who was a priest (the footnote says) was with them.
    KETHUBOTH 11B: SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH CHILDREN
    When a grownup man has sexual intercourse with a little girl, it is nothing. For when the girl is less than 3 years old, it is as if one puts his finger into the eye(in other words her virginity will return back to her). But when a small boy has intercourse with a grownup woman, he makes her as a girl who was injured by a piece of wood.
    BABYLONIAN TALMUD SANHEDRIN 54b
    ".....A child less than 9 years old can not be the subject of SODOMY"!

90 % of people think The Talmud contains morals similar to everyday Christianity.   

Wake Up Sheep!!

5 billion or more of your tax goes to defend this Zionist State

Sometimes when I read this I sympathize with Hitler

It is a spriritual drama that many Jews abandoned the Tenach and substitued these holy books with the unholy texts of the Talmud.

Orthodox and Conservative Judaism are the only ones who see the Talmud as authoritative... hmm, the ones who support Trump by and large. Imagine that.

You want to compare with the abhorrent contents of the Christian Bible? Which condones human sacrifice, slavery, rape, incest, murder, etc?

@JacksonNought Jesus broke away from the Old Testament (the Torah) in the New Testament. The Pharisees wrote the Talmud as a way to maintain the more evil ways of the Old Testament.

@CelticRing so Christians admit that God made a mistake in the OT and needed to change the rules?

@JacksonNought God does what God wants to do. If God wants to make a new covenant with His people, that's what he does. Jesus (God's Word made flesh) brought forth the New Testament when God thought that mankind was ready for it.

@JacksonNought Yes and no, God created the Jewish people through Moses with mosaic laws and all, knowing that this was fitting to the spiritual development of humanity at that time. Later spiritual developments happened through king David and then through the Babylonian exile and then through the coming of Christ. These periods of further spirtual development of humanity which start by a dramatic act of God are called dispensations.

@Corjova, @CelticRing so what that sounds like to me is you should throw away the entirety of the Old Testament, as it is no longer relevant and God no longer recognizes it as valid. God admitted to changing his mind and erring. He has mood swings and is not perfect.

@JacksonNought What culture was appropriate for primitive societies was NOT a mistake. You cannot place new wine in an old wineskin or the old wineskin container will burst. But placing old wine in the old wineskin will work just fine.

4

These days, that can be tricky criticizing Jewish donors without getting labeled a hater. Such political influence is hardly benign by the way, not in my opinion anyway.

Political influence is NEVER benign to somebody.

Instead of writing blithe generalities, why don’t you be specific?

@parsifal I gave my opinion on the matter, and it was clear to understand. You weren't exactly specific either, merely repeating what I said.

@SpikeTalon What of asking you to be specific didn’t you understand?

I’ll type slower - why don’t you be specific?

Better?

@parsifal What about my comment did you not understand? I made my opinion clear, a shame you don't understand plain english. The post asked if such donors was concerning or benign, and I said it was hardly benign, and that meant no.

@SpikeTalon You said nothing. You merely opined that criticizing Jewish donors can be tricky.. so rather than citing specific examples you write some vague comment that means nothing to anyone other than raising the spectre of some unknown Jewish group or individual making unknown donations to unknown recipients...

Your opinion is not clear to anyone but you

@parsifal What I said was true, merely questioning Jewish individuals would spur some to label you as a hater. Why was it necessary for me to cite specific examples? I think most members on here could figure that much out for themselves, they don't need me to dive into specifics.

@parsifal Does "Parsifal" mean "Hasbarist" in German?

@SpikeTalon What spurs that conclusion is how/what you write...

Ok, cool. You can’t explain yourself. I understand.

3

is there a way to discuss it without being called anti-Semitic?

I see these points as applying to every discussion and not specifically to people of the Jewish faith, but as it's the topic of hand, I'll use them as an example

  • discuss the action, not the actor

If a certain political contribution from an individual, be they Jewish or Christian or atheist, is not in line with how you feel the politics of your country should go, address how you feel the politics of your country should go and why you feel those contributions go against it and not your views on the motivation for those contribution or the malfeasance of the person doing the contribution.

  • avoid stereotypes, embrace the individual

In any discussion where a person belongs to a population, be a racial, religious, nationalistic, do not fall into the trap of basing your argument on stereotypes about that population. Instead, view individuals as individuals, as people that are influenced and have a foundation within their race religion or Nation but that are not a caricature of the same.

  • success is not suspicious, networking is not conspiracy

One of the main reasons that I feel the Jewish conspiracy idea has persisted for so long is that as a whole, Jewish people tend to be very successful within the countries that they inhabit. And for me, a main reason for this is that they Network very well. whenever they need something, they will turn to another person, usually from their own Jewish population, to help them out... And they do receive that help. As such, they succeed and that success is seen as suspicious because other people don't succeed as easily. They network, they keep information within themselves for their own success, and again that is seen as conspiracy because other people aren't privy to the same networking, don't have as a strong community as they do.

  • know thyself, know thine enemy

As you look towards Jewish malfeasance, search within yourself and your own religion and see if there aren't aspects that are similar there. For example in the usa, Christian influence in politics is arguably every bit as strong, if not stronger, then Jewish influence in politics. Conversely Jewish influence in Hollywood is much stronger than Christian influence in Hollywood... But they're still Christian influence. As such, looking within oneself to see similarities in another may help you understand them better and find better ways to converse about certain topics. Most important, it is critical to get to know actual people of whom you speak. If you've never met, interacted, or better yet befriended, someone of the jewish, Muslim, gay, black, poor, rich, any population then you are privy to rely on stereotypes and mischaracterizations rather than individuality. I rely on a good example of Daryl Davis and the KKK community. Daryl Davis, a black individual. successfully reached out to many KKK members and in friendship, was able to get them away from their hate of black people. I feel applying that same philosophy towards the Jewish faith, getting to know a person or a synagogue of people of the Jewish faith, can take the hate away from your own heart and find ways to speak about them that aren't anti-Semitic, even if you are criticizing them

FWIW, in business settings, I have often been asked if I was a member of "The Tribe". A safe answer is "My parents were non-practicing" 😉

3

Jews are not all alike, so, it would be a better idea to go after the real culprits, Zionists. Which includes not only Jewish Zionists but all those who agree with their goals.

Why are zionists a problem?

Isaiah 14:32
"What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? THAT THE LORD HATH FOUNDED ZION, and the poor of his people shall trust in it."

@eschatologyguy That is what I would expect from the dispensationalists. Pick a verse here and there from the Bible to make it sound like the Jews shall inherit the earth. Well, do your thing, but as for me I will read the whole Bible and do my very best to quote nothing out of context.

@parsifal Take a look at what so-called Israel has done to Palestine. Remember the Liberty. All done by Zionists. It is the Zionists that have manipulated the state and federal governments in America give us any number of laws that are actually Talmudic. I don't have room to list all that they have done. These people, the Zionist, really do believe just like the dispensationalists that the world is their oyster, or soon shall be.

@lawrenceblair let’s look at history for a moment...the state of israel was created by a UN Charter. Prior to this, the question was presented to both Arabs and Jews, “would you support a two part state, one Arab, one Jewis. The response from the Arab states was 100% against, and from the Jewish side all but 100% for....so there never was the chance of a “Palestinian state” even when it was offered because THEY DONT WANT AN ISRAEL,

@lawrenceblair I know, the land should go to the Palestinians, right?

@parsifal Why is Zionism GOOD? It does what Nazism did, treating Palestinians like the Third Reich treated "others"...limited from Shoah Business only by iPhones and the Internet.

Did Jews recognize the right of the Aryan State to exist?

@parsifal Actually, Jewish terrorists attacked unarmed Palestinians BEFORE the UN could "recognize" Israel. The UN cannot create states.

Terrorist Jews then entered what was supposed to become the state of Palestine (Jews being unhappy with being handed 55% of the Levant), taking even MORE land. Israel then promised in 1948 to set final borders and write a Constitution treating all citizens equally. It's done neither. Instead, for 72 years it's lied, cheated, killed, mooched off Uncle Sucker, milked the Holycaust, and stolen more-more-more Arab land.

@eschatologyguy Who lived in Palestine before the Balfour declaration? Do you know. Or are you so deep into Darby, Scofield dispensationalist claptrap that you are totally ignorant of history? The Palestinians should be as much a citizen as any Jew in that land. I sincerely believe that the majority of Evangelicals in this nation, because of the Scofield notes have become Zionist. They will support Israel no matter how rancid that nation becomes. Take a look at Tel Aviv the sodomite capital of the world, worse than Frisco, yet you dispensationalists love it. What does that say about the dispensationalist's love of God? Quite a lot.

@parsifal Well, what a surprise they did not want their land stolen. My, my, what a strange sentiment, please let me keep my land? Who is it you would like Americans to give our land to? China? No of course not, give it to the Zionists.

@lawrenceblair I rest my case.

@lawrenceblair Ummmm...not unlike Christians from what you’ve written, is it?

@lawrenceblair, @Unguentine Silly me! I had forgotten about the concentration camps the Jews had erected to house and exterminate millions of...who?

You ask “did Jews recognize the right of the Aryan state to exist?” I’m pretty sure the lawyers, doctors, business owners, and other Jews in Germany might have up to the point they we’re banned from working at their chosen professions. Or some children might have until they were forced from school. Or It was those damned Jews tossing rocks on Kristallnacht, right? So, to answer you I’d have to ask for a bit of clarification - do you mean before their families were herded into the gas chambers or sometime after?

@parsifal So, German Nazis bad, Zionist Nazis good. I detest Nazis of any sort. By the way, study the history of Antifa, you might find it interesting but probably not. What is your opinion of Stalin, Antifa types love him; [en.wikipedia.org]. Also, I noticed an Antifa flag at the Washington rally Saturday with a star of David on it; this can be seen on yesterday's TruNews. Funny Google could not find a picture of it anywhere; that Google . . . censors extraordinaire.

@lawrenceblair I don’t recall writing that nazis of any persuasion were “good”. Perhaps you can show me where that is?

Do you want your questions answered one at a time? I’m not sure of the etiquette since you didn’t bother to answer mine, but I’ll have a go.

Antifa? As someone once said the fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists.

Stalin? Megalomaniac.

Antifa flag with the Star of David on it? Oh my - it must be true if you saw it on the internet. Too bad you can’t produce evidence of it, one might doubt your word.

And to a comment you made earlier re Palestine...you know the origins of the word, don’t you? Can you tell us where the land might lie, it’s geographical boundaries, and who were it’s rulers.

@parsifal Sir, I did produce evidence of it. Go to TruNews and go to 1:08:40. That is if you have the time.

@lawrenceblair thank you for being specific. Just writing go to trunews means little when there are hundreds of hours of cached content. But I notice the comments were clear - don’t call that a Star of David, it’s blasphemous, etc. As for time I have a lot, sufficient to do a half dozen google searches for any pic of the flag that unfortunately turned up nothing....

So, to other comments. You mentioned two biblical references when I asked about the first Christian pogrom, those being to Thesalonica and Ephesus. Where are they?

And re the land going to the Chinese... I like a bit of humour mixed into otherwise serious topics. But if you might return please, to the history of Jews and Palestine in particular... I had asked about the origins of the word “Palestine” if you know it? And if you could refer that to the creation of the state of Israel I’d appreciate it.

@parsifal Well of course, I know it is not a star of David; it is the Star of Remphan that the Israelis call the Star of David. David had no such thing. As for a google search, I did a search on Google and could not find it probably because if it showed up on Google at all it would show up on page 1,000,000,001. We all know of Googles games. As to Thessalonica and Ephesus pogroms, you will have to enlighten me on those. The word Palestine was the name placed on the area by the Romans. A bit of history I am sure you also know is that God through the Romans totally destroyed the nation of Israel. The State o Israel was created in Palestine in 1948 by an act of the United Nations. As I said before Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived in Palestine at the time. Do I have to go into the migrations of the Europeans who emmigrated to Palestine after the Balfour Declaration also? I suppose we could also discuss the Ergun.

@lawrenceblair Re the star, I’d suggest the adoption of a particular symbol is indicative of not much beyond the individual user’s having adopted it and cannot be ascribed to the larger community. As for Ephesus and Thessalonians, they are in Greece and Turkey, are they not? And one refers solely to Paul, hardly a pogrom. And Palestine is a bastardized version of Philistine or Philistia, the name of a nomadic tribe ascribed to a region, was it not? And since we are on the subject of where’s Palestine, if my memory serves me it also included portions of Lebanon but I don’t hear the call for land to be annexed from that nation. But as to the legitimacy of the claim for a state of Palestine, I had asked earlier about its geographic location, it’s rulers, and economic systems...So apart from a shallow assertion that “oh, yes, Israel was stolen from the Palestinians” what else do you have?

@parsifal Good grief! I did not ask you for a geography lesson, I asked you about a pogrom that you brought up. As a matter of fact, Thessalonica is in Macedonia and Ephesus is in Turkey. "Israel was stolen from the Palestinians” No as a matter of fact, Palestine was stolen from the Palestinians. You are so wrapped up in your Zionist brainwashing that you find it difficult to think straight even about geography.

@parsifal Oh since you are asking me so many questions, I have one for you. What God is it that the Zionists supposedly worship and what is the book that contains their beliefs? Sorry, that's two questions.

@lawrenceblair you’re forgiven for asking two. 😉

I don’t speak for zionists...but if you were to ask ME I’d say the One God as found in the collected writings, Pentateuch, Talmud, Torah, Mishnah and Gemara...possibly the Kabbalah and Zohar

@lawrenceblair I noticed you haven’t answered one question that would support the idea that Palestine is or was anything beyond a region - not significantly different from “the Sahara” is a region owned by no one state but contained within several...

That said, do you not agree God gave the land to Moses?

@parsifal No, your Bible literacy needs much to be desired, as is the case with most dispensationalists. Moses was given no land, he never entered Canaan at any time; his resting place was on Mt. Nebo. As to your silly argument that there was no such "nation" as Palestine, therefore, European Jewry, whose claim to being "Israelites" is suspect, had a right to conquer the territory of Palestine, murder and displace both Christian and Muslim Arabs because the Europeans wanted to get rid of a problem, is bogus. The guilty can justify any crime it is human nature. By the way, Mt Nebo is in Jordan.

@parsifal We could probably have a polite civil conversation on this issue, but as long as you continue under the misapprehension that I am an ignorant Jew-hater the tone will not change.

@lawrenceblair oh, gawd, no! I’m not a literalist and I hope you’re not either. But God showing the land to Moses but giving it to his children (israel) is splitting too fine a hair. It was given imo to Moses...as to Palestine, that’s is exactly my point. The land was already occupied by a number of “ites” and needed to be conquered - including the nomadic Philistines. As to my silly notion, you haven’t answered - where is it? Where is it’s government, what is it’s currency?

@lawrenceblair I learned a very long time ago that a computer is a very sterile and dry medium with which to communicate rendering most messages subject to the inflection and interpretation OF THE READER, and not necessarily the intent of the writer...So....just because I don’t fold up my tent and scurry away but will confront your comments for what they are does not mean I think you a - what was it? Ignorant Jew hater? And I ask a myriad of questions to get your ideas and opinions, much in the same way as above, not wanting to put more into your words than necessary. What you THINK is what I’m interested in, and why, without getting some silly notion as to what it might be... fair nuff?

@parsifal I am going to attempt to straighten out this problem of who the land was given to as well as the other promises made to Abraham. An important point here, his name was originally Abram which was later changed to Abraham by God. Too long for me to post myself so here is some history: [ligonier.org]

@lawrenceblair yes, I’ve read it thanks. But I will look at your link....

@lawrenceblair oh, it’s quite short..

3

Why don't the rest of us donate more? I say this as a small donor who didn't start donating $ until 2012. It just wasn't on my radar. Perhaps it is part of the secular Jewish culture?

I believe you’re right. The Jewish community’s is a much tighter knit group than most others - but historically that has been the case almost as a matter of survival.

Sadly, though, this is just more identity politics and yet another way to divide the populace.

I would donate more to political campaigns if I had influence along with it... and to do that require having enough funds to make a difference (or pick a local politician). Then again, I need to find a cause that I can support. Will be a future post 🙂

Do you have the billion$ that Soros, Adelman, Zuckerberg, Wojcicki, Brin, and other Jews have?

@Unguentine They are secular Jews. In my area, the large donors and powerful politicians are LDS. They use money and power to promote pro LDS policies. That is their right. Actually, as a small donor, I have more influence, more connections, than most of my neighbors.

3

Billionaires and capitalism are the problems. Not Jewish people.

Yeah, you don’t want to have people become too successful.

Why do the Jewish People hit up billions$ from Uncle Sucker annually? Why can't Israel cut its own ice?

@Unguentine if you actually looked instead of reading your tract materials you might see they do

3

I can argue Pro and Con of the Judean Religion, but saying any negative gets you condemned, as does saying negative about any main followed religious beliefs in any country. Same goes for any race. Would look at the individuals and businesses associated with the donor first. Can't Generalize anymore, gets everybody mad and they will defend any you are criticizing. mho, hypocrisy, but funny.

Is it a crime in Europe to criticize Jesus? Is it verboten in the USA to question the Earth's roundness? Where are all the Holodomor museums in America?

@Unguentine remember the inquisition, and if you think the earth flat, ridiculed as ignorant, and many museums are propaganda, limited truth. So what's your question?

3

I'm not terribly concerned, but no. You can't dive in without being accused of NAZI.

govols Level 8 Nov 16, 2020

You know who rules: those you can't criticize!

@Unguentine

I did not know transgendered corpses ruled the world of the living from their own tombs.

Tell me more about this worm filled underworld and why it is so expensive.

2

Singling out "Jews" as a group is no different than singling out any other group, and it is unjust to its innocent members. If anyone disagrees, we should feel free to figure out to which group they belong and condemn that person based on that group membership, regardless of what that person actually did. Not Constitutional. Only tyranny behaves that way.

Solomonic.

2

In Australia there was a large Jewish organisation that went bonkers over One Nation, (B'nai Brith), I found it odd that they reacted the way they did.... it was a completely paranoid reaction and wrong and it sent the wrong messages out into the community.
I found it wrong that the Jewish groups were supporting Multiculturalism so strongly and calling those opposing it racists... whereas race and culture are not the same thing.
I could be wrong but I think Israel would not be Multiculti as such.
So It does not surprise me that Hollywood and the Jewish Diaspora would be anti-Trump even though he did move the Embassy to Jerusalem and does support Israel as a soverign state.

Aren’t you attributing individual acts to the larger community?

@parsifal nope
The Jewish community isn't that large in Australia... but certain groups within it have a very large and public say for their size... and no contradictions came from anywhere within the community. The community is about 0.6% of the Australia population mostly in 2 major cities, Sydney and Melbourne.

@Lightman by larger community I meant Jews worldwide

@parsifal I'm no anti-semite... but I do understand their paranoia and the reasons for it. Doesn't make them right or wrong about everything... just human.
They were wrong btw in the instance I mentioned.

@Lightman just human - thank you!

2

Jews also overwhelmingly control Hollywood and the pop culture, the mainstream media and social media, as well as academia. They use these bully pulpits to trash white gentiles, Christianity, and the United States and it’s founders. Those things have way more influence over society than political donations but it is also taboo to mention that.

Andyman Level 7 Nov 16, 2020

Will make a topic about this later. Hard to tell if there is an overarching "evil plot" or is it simply media responding to market demand. It's easier to sell decadence than to tell someone to clean their room.

@Admin it’s a plan not a “plot” and it’s roots are in jewish supremacy. The plan is to destroy the uniqueness of all the worlds tribes and nations and transform everyone (themselves and their own tribe excluded of course) into one race of dumbed down consumer slaves that will be dependent on the crap they produce. They see themselves as “Gods chosen people” even though they abandoned God long ago and now only worship money and power for powers own sake. The talmud is their “holy” book and it isn’t scripture, it’s simply a collection of essays by rabbis proclaiming jewish supremacy over all non jews.

Let me know when the first Christian pogrom occurs

@Andyman the same beliefs drive every culture and society - that they are somehow better 5an the rest. In America it’s called patriotism and is a good thing. Jews? Not so much.

And I like how you cherry pick the bad and assign that to some sort of Jewish collective agenda.

But how would they get the notion they are God’s chosen people? Oh, wait - from the same place as Christians do! Kewl.

And as for your holy book, you have the ranting of a Roman who had been summoned before Peter for spreading a false gospel, and spent more time sharing a false idea to support the early church...let’s talk about Christianity’s track record of torture, murder, conquest, and horror in the same as you presented about Jews, shall we?

@parsifal first centruy. Such a pogrom is described in the Bible book Acts in Thessalonica (17:5) and Ephesus (19:23)

@Corjova Correct. Next?

@parsifal jews WERE Gods chosen people at one time, chosen to be the ones that the messiah would come through. That covenant was destroyed when jews rejected and betrayed the messiah as they continue to do today. It won’t be pogroms they need to worry about, it will be the final judgment.

@Andyman judgement was already given - it is good...unless you think God is somehow fallible?

@parsifal every man and woman on earth, regardless of what tribe they were born into, will be given the opportunity to accept the one true savior.

@Andyman that didn’t answer my question, but let me move on...I em always been intrigued by statements like “will be given the opportunity to accept the one true saviour”. In what context, for example, might a 17th century cannibal from what we call New Guinea become aware of this “saviour”?

@parsifal, we are mortals with mortal minds that are incapable of understanding the workings of God. I believe that your 17th century cannibal from New Guinea would be made aware at some point before his transition into the afterworld.

@Andyman that begs the question, how?

2

They're confused poor things, the word, "democrat" is part there-of, "Democracy" so people think they are all for the people, and are democratic, but, the Democrat party are just the opposite, they have some fooled, but not all of us! I wish everyone well.

2

It is all a very thought out and planned scenario. The left follows the same script (in general). Big Tech also. It all, always has the "feel sorry" for us element. Joos are the ultimate supremacy group and get away with it and even get huge support from the Christian right and REpubs, when the joos seem to support the left? Clever as a clam.

Thank fuck you’re not prejudiced, you might write something offensive

@parsifal Hurt fee-fees, Parsikins? Name another that's been booted from 109 countries "for no reason at all." Name another that continually milks the Holycaust, pretending it was the worst crime ever!

@Unguentine not at all...interesting that you rail against the Jews who want their own homeland and yet can blithely write about them being “booted from 109 countries”! Lol.

I don’t believe I’ve ever heard anyone claim it was “the worst crime ever”. What I have heard is that millions of Jews were murdered along with Soviet pows, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Slavs and Poles, Sinti and Roma gypsies, homosexuals, political dissidents, socialists, intellectuals, and Germans working to undermine the Nazi regime...

But as for “milking” the holocaust I guess your education stopped at the part of reparations paid by Germany to other countries, didn’t it?

@parsifal The Jewish Talmud trains its readers to break almost every one of God's commandments in their dealing with Gentiles since "the Christian Europeans tore down their temple". Only an insane country would allow such a cult to exist in its territories (during the times when they followed the Talmud and the Rabbis). But greedy Aristocracies did allow them to stay in their principalities most often since they contracted the Jews to collect taxes and to loot from the peasants which the Jews did very well since they had no loyalty to the host populations.

@CelticRing wait, wait, wait...who destroyed the temple? Christian Europeans? Which historical record might contain that story?

Please indicate which “aristocracies” you refer to in regard to looting from the peasant populations

2

As long as it is recognized that the general does not address the specific, I don't see why not. Jews are incredibly successful. That's an interesting topic but doesn't apply to all Jews. A large number of Jews support Democrats but clearly a significant minority support Republicans. Why do they support a group that seems to have a problem with antisemitic and anti-Israel behavior? Again, another interesting conversation. Perhaps the clear answer is that we are not defined by our group but by our individual choices and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Indians (dot, not feather) are very successful, too. How much influence does the Indian Lobby have compared to AIPAC? Do they constantly yammer about needing reparations from Britain?

1

But what does Jewish mean here? What are the values of those called Jews? Are they all the same? Are they really Jewish? Jewish in what capacity? How does it influence people and with what goals? I would like more clear answers to those questions before I can provide any answer, because I don't see much link to Judaism or historical culture of Jewish people. Judaism is an ethnic religion comprising the collective religious, cultural and legal tradition and civilization of the Jewish people. What are they and how do they link to the people in the link?

1

Crazy is as Crazy does - Forrest Gump

1

The devil is in the detail. The difference between influencing the media on one hand and controlling on the other. The later is stormfag babble.

I'm all up for the former, the starting point may be Ben Shappiros differentation between orthodox and secular judaiism.

I'm back yay!

1

Is IDW to become a bastion of anti-Semitism?

If it did it would be no surprise. The whole world will be against Israel as predicted in Joel 3. And it would be this that pisses the Messiah.

I hope not, I do my best to discourage them. However, I should remind those who seem to be so enamored by the term antisemitism that the term has recently been extended to include anyone who speaks against the policies of the State of Israel. The U.S. government and the States have even enacted it into regulations; for instance, the laws anti-BDS laws. How many laws do we have against boycotting Russia, China, Britain?

@eschatologyguy Who is Isreal? That is the question. That is not a rhetorical question, but you need not answer; your answer is obvious.

Our goal is to discuss all topics - especially controversial ones. There is a general category of topics in form of "Does group X have negative traits?... and if so, what should be done to mitigate impact/trouble?" which should be discussable. For example, "Do NASCAR fans drink too much beer?"

@Admin NASCAR is just another excuse to drink beer 😄 By the way our friend here belongs to a rather large group of professing Christians who believe in "replacement theology", where they are now, somehow, the new Israel 🤔🙄

1

Jewish people are victims of nothing. Let's move past pretending they have special victimhood status and judge Jews on their actions and inborn attributes.

You had me in agreement until "inborn attributes"... what exactly does that mean?

Oh, I’d say their “special victimhood status” is pretty much justified, don’t you think?

@parsifal as long as there are people that still want Jews dead merely because they are Jews (or people, such as on this site, who perpetuate the blood libel myth) then yeah, they sort of are a hated minority.

@JacksonNought agree...

@parsifal If there were a Diaspora to the degree that they pretend, then there wouldn't have been a Jerusalem Talmud written 400 years after the temple in Jerusalem. By far, most of the Israeli Jews from that time converted to Christianity (albeit mostly by force, but maybe by choice mostly, just as ALL of Israel's neighboring countries, like Syria and Greece and Egypt) over the next 500 years. The Rabbis and the Revolutionaries fled to Babylon during Roman control.

@CelticRing to your phrase “if there were a Diaspora to the degree that they pretend”.... are you saying that he ‘scattering’ was made up or that the Babylonians didn’t conquer the land?

@parsifal I am talking about the "diaspora" of "70AD". Archeologists have found so many hidden arms caches under houses in Jerusalem containing Jewish revolutionary writings from the Bar Kochba rebellion of 130AD which means that they weren't all gone out of Jerusalem in 70AD. They were fighting Romans from their Jerusalem homes in 130AD. And the fact that there was a Jerusalem Talmud written by Israeli Rabbis in Israel means that Jews lived in Israel five hundred years after the "diaspora" of "70AD".

@CelticRing why do you imagine the land was not reoccupied once the conquering hordes had left? Or even if all did actually leave? Thinking of rebellion, many learned people label Jesus a revolutionary. Was he?

@parsifal The revolutionaries in a country can be a minority rising up against their majority oppressors (such as Black civil rights activists in the US in the 1960's) or conversely, a majority race rising up against a minority oppressor, such as when the 90% blacks rose up against the 10% white ruling class in South Africa in the 1980's (or the native Egyptian majority rising up against the Hebrew minority rulers in ancient Egypt around the time of the Exodus).
Regardless of the relative numbers, Jewish Christians in 30AD would have been somewhat revolutionary, I would imagine.
And speaking of numbers, there were about twenty Jewish sects in Israel in 30AD and while the Pharisees were predominant, the other nineteen Jewish sects (Essenes, Sadducees, Messianic Jews, etc) were all opposed to the Oral Laws of the Pharisees. Also, the Countryside shepherd people (95% of Israel's population) who kept sabbath and avoided pork did not adhere to any particular sect (though tended to convert to Christianity). Kind of like the French or the Italians of the 1960's who all identify as Christian even though they hardly ever attend Church. The countryside shepherds could not have afforded to migrate to Babylon, and were prone to converting to Christianity anyway (just like the Jews of neighboring Egypt and Greece and Syria, etc did).

@parsifal And continuing with my earlier reply, since most Jewish Israelis of 30AD were opposed to the Oral Laws of the Pharisees, and since the Pharisees went from rulers to being a small minority ruled by the majority Palestinian Christians, then it is apparent that from that point onwards it was the Pharisees who were then the revolutionaries, not the Christians. For the next 500 years the revolutionary Pharisees of Israel shrank in numbers until finally at around 600AD the few remaining Pharisees committed treason one too many times by opening the city's gates to the invading Persians and so were finally expelled permanently from that land.

@parsifal Babylon certainly did conquer Israel and there are ancient clay tablet records that detail the records of the food quantities required for the caravan of the captive ruling class that was being transported to Babylon. That caravan would have included the eunuch Daniel of the lion's den fame. Certainly Babylon didn't transport the whole population of Israel, as that would be ridiculous, and the working class Israeli countryside shepherds didn't castrate eunuch slaves to tend their flocks.

1

lol at leaning into the "concerns" of the audience on here.

bastion Level 7 Nov 17, 2020

Thanks Bastion.

I was hoping the
Admin
would share his
favorite photo of
" Ze happy merchant "
cupping his own hands

@Mikewee777 i'm not sure it's intentional, and i know the admin banned some rabid anti-Semitic types from here before but i'd probably avoid this sort of stuff, and find it worrying how so many of the posters are so ahem "concerned" about Jewish people.

@bastion c’mon, grow a pair! Banned? How awful.

@parsifal what?

@bastion read it again...or better, have someone explain the big words to you

@parsifal I understand what you've written, but I don't think you understand what I had written, I wasn't complaining about anti-semites being banned.

Comprehension can be difficult if you are angry eh?

@bastion oh, I know what you wrote about anti-semitc “types” being banned here and how that’s so awful! My, my, my...

@parsifal i didn't say that was awful though did I?

Less raging more reading.

@bastion cautioning against - oh, let’s leave them as “comments”, at the risk of being banned?

Birds of a feather...

@Mikewee777, @bastion I have personal respect for Jewish people and their many accomplishments/contributions. I also have many among my friends and business associates. However, since Jewish people are overrepresented in media and politics, having a ban on discussions about this fact only exasperates conspiracy thinking... hence this post.

@Admin Fair enough.

Just like how it is annoying when a entire political party is blamed without naming specific people responsible for the fault ,
the same rules should apply to the opposite party.

I will even go as far as shame people who try to claim success by proxy without actually contributing anything to the success.

There was a episode of " The big bang theory" that made the same argument against sports fans but I guess that was one of many reasons why the show got cancelled.

Most people can not even agree on what a Jew is supposed to be. Not even Jews themselves. We better ask a Scotsman.

@Admin what do you make of the overwhelming level of posters who indulge in right wing conspiracy theories about Jewish people, frequently moving into unguarded hatred?

1

Jews present themselves as a high-minded and ethical people who are a light until the gentiles. So why do they keep getting such bad reputations?

Scholars like Thomas Sowell sometimes compare Jews to Parsis (Indian Zoroastrians) as similar "middleman minorities." But Parsis tend not to alienate their host societies the way Jews do.

Uh huh... have the Parsis been subject to a blood libel for 2,000 years - spread mostly by religious leaders of the newer religion? That kind of alienation?

@parsifal You don't need to hold a superstitious belief about what Jews allegedly did 2,000 years ago to see that they have a history of exploiting and abusing their host societies. If the Chinese wind up not liking Jews after opening their country up to Jewish influence, you won't be able to blame that on Christianity.

@parsifal Christians and Europeans have also been subjected to Talmudic Libel. Between the Talmud and Maimonides, they teach impressionable Jewish kids that they are owed compensation from Christians and Europeans due to their temple getting knocked down by the Pagan Romans.
How are the Irish or the Russians or Swedes Pagan Romans??
In reality, the only Christians at that time (70AD) were Jews (because undesirable circumcision was at that time a requirement to be a Messiamnic Jew, ie a Christian). And the Ashkenazi of today are predominantly Italian, so they knocked down their own temple.

@CelticRing plz be specific when you write using the Talmud as some sort of reference. Where does it say that?

What I read from the Bavli is echoed in .christian doctrine - whosoever destroys a life, destroys the world, and whosoever saves a lif, saves the world. As for killing gentiles rabbi Shi’mon meant in time of war....

Try again.

@parsifal "whosoever destroys a life, destroys the world" That fake quote from Schindler's List is a real quote from the Jerusalem Talmud (sometimes called the Palestinian Talmud). In Judaism the Babylonian Talmud takes precedence over the more tame Palestinian Talmud. The Cosa Nostra Mafia-like Babylonian Talmud says "whosoever destroys a JEWISH life, destroys the world", which is more consistent with much of their other supremacist stuff.

@CelticRing wrong. That is simply propaganda. I provided you with a direct reference to the rabbi speaking the words. Refute them.

@parsifal You are practicing a Jewish version of Taqiya (deception to avance your religion). You seem to know your Talmud, but you are mis-representing its contents to the "dumb goyims" here.

"Whoever destroys a soul [of Israel], it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life of Israel, it is considered as if he saved an entire world" [en.wikiquote.org]

[judaism.stackexchange.com]

The Bavli [Sanhedrin 37a] does say "a Jewish life": enter image description here But the Yerushalmi [Sanhedrin 4:1 (22a)] does not: enter image description here

When the two Talmuds disagree, the Bavli wins. But here they do NOT disagree. One is simply more general than the other.

@CelticRing actually, no. Again - I gave you the name of the rabbi who spoke the words and their meaning. The inclusion of the words “of Israel” is not correct.

1

As a Jew, it is not concerning. Jews are not some monolith. You can have liberal Jews in politics like Bernie Sanders and conservative Jews in politics like Stephen Miller. You can have liberal Jewish pundits like Sam Seder and conservative Jewish pundits like Ben Shapiro. You can have atheist Jews, secular Jews, orthodox Jews, etc.

The typical "political influence" narrative is usually an attempt to claim that Jews have some sort of allegiance to a foreign power, Israel, and therefore are not truly American. You see this when Conservatives claim Democrat Jews are "voting against their interests" and bring up Trump's support of Israel or attacks on BDS. Most Jews have never been to Israel, and many are critical of their government and civil rights - I know I am.

For anyone critical of the "George Soros" bogeyman, I wonder if they equally as critical of Sheldon Adelson? If anyone thinks there are "too many Jews" in politics, I wonder if they think there are too many white men in politics? Or too many politicians of Italian or Irish decent? Or too many Christian politicians? How about the fact that the US is only about 20% Catholic, yet the Supreme Court currently is about 70% Catholic - do we have a problem with Catholic political influence?

As a non-Jew I dislike both Soros and Adelson equally. As a non-Jew I wouldn't mind many Jews in politics if Jews would behalve like non-Jews. Alas, Jews tend to behave and act as Jews and are catering to their own percieved group interests, which they happen to interpret in strong ingroup - outgroup patterns. Every time a Jew claims to speak "as a Jew" I translate the claim into "as an enemy of non-Jews".

@Corjova what exactly is "behaving like a Jew"? As I already said, Jews are not a monolith. Look at the vast difference between Jews like Sam Seder and David Pakman vs Ben Shapiro and Dennis Prager. Or if we are talking government, look at the vast difference between Bernie Sanders and Chuck Schumer vs Jared Kushner and Stephen Miller.

Apply you logic to literally any other group. As a non-Christian, I would prefer Christians to behave more like non-Christians. Alas, Christians tend to behave and act as Christians and are catering to their own perceived group interests, which they happen to interpret in strong ingroup-outgroup patterns. Every time a Christian claims to speak "as a Christian" I translate the claim into "as an enemy of non-Christians".

As an atheist, I'd prefer theists to behave more like atheists. Ever time I hear someone say "as a proud god-fearing person..." or claiming to "put god above all else" I translate the claim to "as an enemy of atheists".

Look at how Evangelicals are Trump's most vocal supporters, and were one of the main reasons he won in 2016. They supported the most corrupt, un-Christian president in history, because they saw it as a means to an end in advancing their interests. How is this any different than your claims about Jews?

@JacksonNought You cannot apply my statement about Jews to Christians, because Christians don't cater to perceived group interests and Christians don't interpret things in strong ingroup-outgroup patterns. That would be very unchristian.
Indeed, Jews aren't monolithic as you rightly show with your examples. It is an enigma what Jews mean when they, like you do, declare to be stating something "as a Jew". I could ask you what you mean by that, however I think I know the answer probably better than you, because I read "The Wandering Who?" by the former Jew Gilad Atzmon, who discovered that Israel has no legal, ethical or religious standing, who witnessed how the IDF in which he was enlisted, commited war crimes in the notoious Israeli Internment camp Ansar during the failed 1982-1984 war in Lebanon. He described the illusory concept of 'chosen-ness' that leads to the identity ascribed to themselves and leads to the viciousness of their influence. I tend to judge Jews on their personal merits until they refer to themselves as Jews and start whining about Jewish suffering.

@Corjova yes, you can 100% apply the logic equally to all self-identifying groups. They typically all have shared commonalities, self-interest for their in-group, and goals to achieve. It is a typical anti-Semitic nonsensical talking point to claim that somehow Jews are unique or "different" in how they care about group interests - something I have seen echoed on this site primarily by those who openly celebrated Hitler and suggested I should be enslaved or killed because of my ethnicity.

Please, do explain specifically how Christians aren't the same. Christians make their faith their primary purpose, trying to inject it into politics and heavily backing corrupt and quite un-Christian politicians (like Trump) in order to attain their goals of Christian-dominance in the Supreme Court to try and demolish abortion rights and allow for discrimination against people with different sexual orientation or gender identity. Where I live, a local politician running for Congress had lawn signs with "God" as the very first part of her platform, before Country, or Jobs, or Security - that is echoed by many Christians, who put their god and the Bible above the Constitution. Look at how Christians came out in support of slavery, because the Bible condoned it. Look at how Christians came out in support of anti-miscegenation laws, saying their religion was against race-mixing. Look at how Christians came out against marriage equality, with DOMA and the LDS church heavily campaigning against California's Prop 8. You don't see this as catering specifically to Christian in-group interests at the detriment to out-groups? Please.

It's highly insulting, and quite laughable, to assume you know more than I do about my own though patterns. When I say "as a Jew" I am letting you know that I can speak to the whole "monolith" myth, and show you that not all Jews are the same. Especially when I am highly critical of Israel, and have no allegiance to them. As I always say, feel free to criticize Israel all you want, you'll receive no backlash from me, as long as you aren't denying their right to exist. Same with Judaism in practice - I am highly critical of the religion, as I am non-practicing. Go ahead and criticize the religion all you want, as long as you aren't suggesting they are subhuman or don't deserve the same freedoms as Christians. Saying "as a Jew" is no different than saying "as a woman" or "as a Christian" or "as an African-American" - it is acknowledging a part of yourself, whether that is ethnicity or heritage or religion, and giving your perspective based on how that part has shaped your life.

Saying "as a Jew" doesn't mean you are "whining" about suffering. Does saying "as a Christian" automatically mean you are whining about not being allowed to kill gays? Are you equally as critical of Christians who whine about "persecution" because the Starbucks cups aren't Christmas-y enough, or because gay people can get married?

The question asked by Admin was about Jewish influence, not Israel. Take Israel out of the question. The majority of people who are obsessed with Israel actually seem to be the Republicans and Evangelicals, mostly because of some cockamamie belief in end-time prophecy about Jews being in control of Jerusalem.

@JacksonNought I maintain that Jews are both unique and different in the zealousness with which they take care of group interests. Non only through the condescending way they communicate with ‘Goyim’, but also the highly organized and rich lobbying organizations, e.g. ADL, AIPAC in the USA, CRIF in France, CIDI in the Netherlands and similar lobby organizations in nearly every country. Not only through lobbying, Jews are also active in changing the cultures in their host countries e.g. through cultural Marxism. This is described by Kevin MacDonald in his book “The Culture of Critique”. There is no other ethnic group on the face of this Earth which is so active, so refined in their communications and so well organized and so aggressive.
Christians aren’t the same, because they are not an ethnic group, they are a spiritual family which has accepted the task of preaching the gospel to non-Christians and being good disciples of Christ in their gatherings. Non-Christians are no enemies but doomed souls who can save themselves if they accept the gospel.
In the long history since the Crucifixion lots of Christians have bend the proper teachings to suit their interests, like you show with your examples. Yet Christians managed to correct themselves. e.g. in abolishing slavery. As witnesses the truth, which is revealed by the Living God in the Bible, Christians oppose the concept of same sex marriage. This is not an in-group interest but a defense of a universal value. The fact that Christians once did things in a wrong way, doesn’t mean that Christian religion is flawed.. Only non-Christian religions are flawed.
I understand you feel insulted, but I simply don’t believe that people understand themselves, this is not an easy message for people to accept. Yes, you are not a representative of other Jews and yes, you don’t support things like Israel or Judaism. Neither does Gilad Atzmon who took years of study and self analyzing to grasp what it means if he or someone else self-identifies as a Jew. What do you think of Gilad Atzmon and his work?

@Corjova, @JacksonNought Good conversation you two. Agree that every group is not monolithic. Jewish people vote 2:1 Dem:Rep which isn't as skewed as say, Blacks or atheists. Not all Blacks support BLM (thankfully).

@Admin most Jews in the US are secular / liberal Jews. They tend to skew Democratic because the Republican party often appears to be the party of white supremacists and anti-Semites, regardless if that is really true or not. Why would Jews vote for a party whose goal is their subjugation / elimination?

@Corjova oh great, another person quoting MacDonald. You aren't the first on this site, and I doubt you'll be the last. Just so you know the company you are joining, there was a poster a couple months ago who would go around quoting MacDonald constantly - it was his entire argument for everything, basically that Jews were evil and to blame for all of the world's issues. He even had his own group about how Jews were ruining the planet. In a conversation I had with him, he essentially claimed that Catholic priests raping children wasn't a big deal - it was excusable - because they weren't Jews. So that is all I can see when someone uses MacDonald to try and rationalize their position: that any ills of mankind is excusable except for Jewishness.

Ok, Christians aren't an ethnic group... they are more like a cult, going into their host countries and trying to convert everyone into their way of thinking or else they slaughter and enslave them. Christmas and Easter are just stolen Pagan holidays. Look at missionaries going to Africa to try and convert poverty-stricken nations, but make sure they know that condoms aren't allowed so AIDS can live on. How about US Christian missionaries going to Uganda and helping them create a "Kill The Gays" law?

If we are talking about ethnicity, how about the typical Italian / Irish Catholic? Couldn't they be considered as having allegiance to a foreign power - The Vatican and The Pope - and therefore cannot be trusted in America? How about The Federalist Society, which helped groom and install the last several Republican appointed Supreme Court justices... which I have already said, 7 of 9 are Catholic. Seems to me they are trying to take over, even when they are only 20% of the US population. Let's not forget, as I previously stated, they raped children and covered it up... seems like they are protecting their own self interests, everyone else be damned. They also believe in literal cannibalism through the eucharist... talk about a blood libel.

You want to talk about lobbying organizations? How about the Family Council, a fundamentalist Christian organization which influences US law. Did you know that a 3rd of federal public sexual education funding goes towards Christian "Abstinence-Only-Until-Marriage" programs? This is taxpayer money, going to public schools with non-Christian students, enacting Christian dogma into their education. They teach factually inaccurate claims like "condoms cause cancer" and stress that abstinence is the only topic on the curriculum. Just last year, the Family Council helped defeat a bill in Arkansas which would have mandated for proper STI and pregnancy prevention requirements in sex-ed. Despite the Christian's absolute hate for abortion, and comprehensive sex-ed being proven to reduce the rate of unwanted pregnancy and abortion, they still prefer their forcing their backwards dogma into the public - screw the outgroup.

How about child marriage? For all the blustering about child trafficking and sexual abuse, the Christians have no problem marrying off pre-pubescent children. 13 states in the USA have no age limit for marriage, meaning a family can marry off their 8 year old daughter to a 40 year old man. And typically, especially in religious scenarios, sexual contact with a man and his child bride is ignored since it is between married couples. Before Tennessee set an age limit of 17 in 2018, girls as young as 10 were married in 2001. Just last year there was a bill in Idaho to end child marriage and make the minimum age 16 - the bill died, with a Republican lawmaker saying it "went too far" and another saying they were concerned about "sanctity of family". Sure sounds like Christians protecting their own interests while projecting and condemning the outgroups?

Here is some other facts about Christians protecting their own interests, despite living in societies which are supposed to believe in religious freedom:

  • In a Pew study in 2020, about half of Americans said that the Bible should influence U.S. laws, and 28% said the Bible should be favored over the will of the people / Constitution. I'd say that is a bit concerning, considering we are a nation of religious freedom.
  • How about anti-sodomy laws, where consenting adults were policed in the privacy of their own bedrooms. This included the criminalization of homosexuals, which led to the Stonewall riots.
  • How about the need to add "under God" into the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" on currency in the 50's as part of the Red Scare?
  • How about the need for Oklahoma legislator to pass a bill earlier this year declaring 2020 the "Year of the Bible" - claiming, "We have turned away from the foundational principles and truths that established our country. This resolution allows us to recognize the influence the Bible has on our land."
  • How about the Hobby Lobby decision and the RFRA, which allow people to circumvent laws if they clash with their sincerely held beliefs? Hobby Lobby and other religious corporations don't have to insure Birth Control due to the RFRA. However, in Missouri, a woman tried to get a perfectly legal abortion. Due to MO abortion laws, she was forced to wait for 3 days, undergo a pelvic exam, and receive religious propaganda about abortion - all in an attempt to make her change her mind. This clashed with her sincerely held religious beliefs, and she sued to circumvent these requirements as part of the RFRA. She was denied, and is currently appealing. As in many things, the rules only seem to apply to Christians.

I don't see what preaching has to do with anything. Jews don't prosthelytize and therefore they are too secretive and selfish? I actually see that as more letting people live their lives without harassment, as opposed to Christians who feel the need to force people to do as they say, even if they don't believe. And again, Jews ethnically are not the same as practitioners of Judaism. Ivanka Trump is not an ethnic Jew, but she practices Judaism. Yet the anti-Semitic narrative never dares make that distinction, because it is fundamentally racist. Nazis didn't care if Jews were practicing or not when they committed genocide.

"The fact that Christians once did things in a wrong way, doesn’t mean that Christian religion is flawed.. Only non-Christian religions are flawed." Wow, how ridiculously absurd. So Christians managed to correct themselves with slavery... what, after 1800 years? And even then, not fully? I guess either they never truly understood their god's teachings, or their god is fallible and makes mistakes and isn't all knowing. And then it took even longer to correct themselves on gay rights? Oh, sorry, you don't believe in that freedom. It isn't some "universal value" - it is Christian dogma being forced upon non-believers in the outgroup so they can protect their self interests.

I understand myself perfectly fine. I doubt you understand me more than I do. Perhaps you are the one who doesn't understand yourself if you truly believe that.

I am not too familiar with Atzmon, but from basic research he seems to compare Jewish "ideology" to Nazism, and calls Jews supremacists and racists. Yet, from everything I see so far, he basically means the nation of Israel, where he is from, and not Jews as an ethnicity. He even says "I don't have anything against Jews in particular and you won't find that in my writings". Like I already said, I have plenty of issues with Israel, as do many American secular Jews.

@JacksonNought “The Culture of Critique” by Kevin MacDonald is a well researched book by a scientist. Kevin quotes Jews who explain what motivates them. Jews happen to be quite open about their motives. So if one needs to explain how and why and how Jews created fake science and weird ideologies on American universities (e.g. Boasian anthropology, political correctness) his book provides a reliable source.
The three books I own on the subject provide different approaches of Jewish activism, i.e. the scientific approach by MacDonald, the philosophical approach by Atzmon and the apologetic approach by Jones. I base my opinion about Jews and their influence on well informed analyses.
Christians are not a cult in a host country, they are the common population in their HOME country which they inherited from their ancestors who created it. The USA is created by Christian settlers from different European countries as a homeland for free Christians who are allowed to worship God in any way they see fit. Christian do not enslave people, nowhere in European Christian countries were slaves when Columbus discovered America. Slavery was not practiced at all in the middle ages after the collapse of the Roman Empire.
I don’t know where the idea came from to buy slaves in Africa, where slavery was abundant among the heathen and Islamic people, who had slaves for sale, and sell them in newly developing colonies in America to work on plantations. among major slave traders were Jews (e.g. the Sassoon family in England) and in the Dutch colony Surinam many plantation owners who exploited slaves were Jews as well. There is no such thing as Jewish innocence in the history of slavery in America. The slave trade by European Christians and Jews started in the 17th century and was abolished in the 19th century by Christian activists followed by freeing of slaves in non-Christian countries. So in a way Christians not only corrected their own wrongs but even exported good Christian values. Jews were never anti-slavery, in fact the Jewish ideology of Communism is bringing massive slavery into practice. (read Ayn Rand, who is like Gilad Atzmon a former Jew)
Yes every group has lobbying organizations, but the Jews are very dominant here. I didn’t know about child marriage, in my country people need to be adults of at least 18 years of age to get married, I presumed this to be normal in all Western countries. As a counter example i point to the bill in California introduced by a Jew to allow adults to do sexual acts with minors. This was signed into law by a Roman Catholic.
As the topic is about Jewish influence I don’t comment on examples of Christian influence.
Jews DID proselytize in Biblical ages.
Christian dogma is never forced on non-believers because Christians teach about a God who doesn’t force anything on anybody. One cannot be a disciple of such a God and force morals. Christians teach that God ordained civil governments to uphold laws and morals (Romans 13). Christians teach separation between church and state and they teach personal responsibility of individuals.
It is good to hear from a Jew who has issues with Israel. In my country such a Jew is Raoul Heertje who went to Israel and after dwelling there for a few years came to the conclusion that this country is so evil that he didn’t want to have anything to do with it. He later participated in an insightful documentary about Israel on Dutch television with Frans Bromet.

@Corjova so you base you opinion on Jews not from knowing Jews, and acknowledging they are not a monolith, and seeing them as an ethnicity no different than Germans or Italians... but on three books you own. Lovely. And you just happen to own several books on how Jews are evil. Yeah, you seem like a swell guy. Not a Nazi sympathizer or anything. I guess I should base all of my opinions on Christians based on books... let's see, how about God Is Not Great by Hitchens, or Reflections on the Evils of Christianity by Darien, or The God Delusion by Dawkins.

I am not going to get into a debate about MacDonald's theories yet again. It is like trying to have an actual debate with someone who believes in Flat Earth, or Lizard People, or QAnon... there is just no logic there. Nathan Cofnas has already completely destroyed MacDonald's argument in various rebuttals, saying he "misuses sources, applies his theory differently to Jews and non-Jews, and chooses a complicated explanation for Jewish history when simpler ones would suffice." You might as well quote Mein Kampf... which, by the way, the person I previously mentioned who always quoted MacDonald also quoted MK as well. Again, great company to keep.

You do realize the USA was already home to people. The the Christians came in and slaughtered and enslaved them all, forcing their ways on them. Yeah, I consider that a virus cult destroying a host country and wiping away all previous traces in favor of their own. Just like the Crusades. You also know the whole "Christian settlers... for free Christians who are allowed to worship God in any way they see fit" thing is not true, right? The Christians / Puritans left England because it wasn't their flavor of Christianity, and they wanted a theocracy of their own, where they imposed their extremely narrow and strict practice on the colonies. Look at the Salem Witch Trials. They banned Christmas. Only church members could vote or hold office. Any question against the church was a crime and resulted in imprisonment. Just look at the stockades, and scarlet letters.

"Christian do not enslave people" wow, that is one of the most ridiculous things you have said so far. First, American slave-holders used the Bible to justify slavery, commonly quoting Genesis IX, 18–27 and Ephesians VI, 5-7. No slavery in Europe? Again, ever hear of the Crusades? Church law endorsed slavery as an "instrument for Christian conversion" where Christians were protected from slavery, but Muslims and non-Christian pagans were acceptable to enslave. European Christians initially saw non-Christians as "natural slaves". After the expansion into the new world, Christians started to change from non-Christian slaves to non-European slaves, and set their sights on Africa. They associated Africans with the institution of slavery, citing the the biblical "Curse of Ham" which they interpreted as Africans being descendants of Ham and Canaan, who inherited Noah's curse of slavery. Christians have indeed perpetuated slavery, and defended it in the Americas for decades, even some still doing so today. No one is saying Jews are completely innocent and had nothing to do with slavery, but it seems as if you are making the argument that Christians are completely innocent.

Ok, so once again we have a non-American trying to comment on American politics, telling us that "Jews have too much influence" while not actually living in America and experiencing just how much Christian influence there is forced on what is supposed to be a free and pluralistic nation.

You assumed wrong on the age of marriage, as I already stated the case in the USA. Child brides are a terrible issue, yet the Christian dominion perpetuates it. You are also grossly misinterpreting the California bill. The already existing law was that a judge could dismiss a case and the defendant would not have to register as a sex offender if it was strictly penile-vaginal sex, and the minor was at least 14 and the defendant was no more than 10 years older. This means that prior to the California bill, the law already said that a 24 year old man could have vaginal sex with a 14 year old girl, and it could be dismissed and considered perfectly legal under a judge's discretion. So the previous Christian law already allowed sex with minors, as long as it conformed to the Christian interpretation of what sex should be. However, oral and anal sex was automatically deemed an offense with required sex offender registration, meaning that a 17 year old gay man could have sex with a gay man who literally turned 18 a day prior, and it would cause for automatic offender registry. The CA bill just applied the law equally for people of different sexual orientations, deeming that the previous law was still in place but included oral and anal sex as well as up for judge discretion. This is the first time I've actually heard the bill sponsor being Jewish as the reason, normally I have heard it was because the sponsor was gay. I guess nothing is off limits to those who see Jewishness as inherently evil.

If Christians act as you say where you live, then I am quite jealous. In America, Christian dogma is absolutely forced on non-believers, and they see the separation of church and state as only meaning the state cannot interfere with their dominance. As I already said previously, American Christians try to force their religion into every aspect of the law, imposing it on non-Christians, and then acting like poor persecuted victims when someone disagrees with them. In America, Christians act like they have been brutally assaulted if someone says "Happy Holidays" to them rather than "Merry Christmas". In America, 100% of our presidents have been Christian - it is nearly impossible to be elected otherwise. Christians will consider you "un-American" if you are not a Christian, and believe the Bible should be the law of the land and forced upon non-Christians. If you think Jews are a problem, you really should see American Christians.

@JacksonNought My books give sufficient insights in Jewish tactics an strategies. Why don't you simply read the Talmud if you want to know something about what AS A JEW to think of Chrisianity? I did read Mein Kampf, the English version with annotations. MK has two parts, the first part is interesting history of the nazi movement and how Hitler got involved, the second part deals with what is wrong with the Jews. I think Hitlers analyse is mostly sort of paranoic. Why shouldn't I read it and why shouldn't Kevin MacDonald cite from it? Why do you lie by writing "USA was already home to people. The the Christians came in and slaughtered and enslaved them all, forcing their ways on them." The truth is: the continent was empty and uninhabited and the few Indians that roamed around were treated gently. Some Christian settlers were extreme, so what? The USA was a place where they were left in peace.
Yes in the two hundred years of misusing the Bible to condone slavery Christians managed to cite some Bible verses. Have you not consulted the Talmud on the subject of slavery?
Yes I'm a non American, how does that mean that I shouldn't comment on American politics? I can access the same sources for news and information as Americans, please notice that two of the books I read on Jewish influence ar written by Americans, both once professors on an American university, also I follow the tweets of the American president, and the famous journalist Ann Coulter, nothing wrong with my sources!
Why do you lie by writing: "Christian dogma is absolutely forced on non-believers, and they see the separation of church and state as only meaning the state cannot interfere with their dominance." Some schools New York school districts even stop celebrating Christmas.

@Corjova I can think whatever I want about Christianity, as a man, as a Jew, as an atheist - I don't have to conform to groupthink. Why would I give a shit about the Talmud, a religious document only followed by the most extreme Orthodox and Conservative Judaism sects?

You can read whatever you want. Writers can cite whatever they want. But that doesn't legitimize anything. I'd actually say you delegitimize yourself if you use Hitler's paranoid ramblings as evidence.

Why do you lie about indigenous populations in America pre-Christian occupation? There were millions of native people living in America, and no - Columbus and other Christian settlers did not treat them "gently". There was murder, rape, enslavement... even after America was more establish, the native populations were still treated abhorrently. Ever hear of the Trail of Tears? Christians in the USA did not leave people in peace. In fact, the Salem Witch Trials mostly started because of prejudice towards Native Americans.

I already acknowledged that religiously, Judaism is not innocent when it comes to slavery or other atrocities. After all, the Old Testament is the Jewish book. But I am willing to condemn the religion of Judaism, on the same level of the religion of Christianity. You are removing religion from the conversation and attacking Jews based on lineage and ethnicity.

Again, you are the liar here. Christian dogma is 100% forced on non-believers. We have fortunately made great strides in the past 300 years to become a more secular and pluralist nation, with Christian influence being less legally mandated, but that doesn't stop them from still trying.

If you idolize the first American Christian settlers so much, you should encourage school districts no longer celebrating Christmas - the Puritans banned it.

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